Iron Heart Nagoya

[red devil]

IHUK selling items for markup + British VAT is one thing. Having a global monopoly such that even sales by stores in the U.S. are handled through them and incorporate that cost is another still.

I don’t give Iron Heart Japan a pass for it to be clear. I don't see them as passive in giving Giles his monopoly.

As far as I understand, Giles and Haraki quickly went beyond producers and distibutor to become partners. From a business perspective it is certainly better for them. They have better control of their brand and can avoid their image being diluted by the decisions of others.

For the customer, it means higher prices, but also means centralised customer service, and a really good one at that.

I am not sure what is wrong in Haraki giving the overseas market to Giles?

 

[Will Zach]

As far as I understand, Giles and Haraki quickly went beyond producers and distibutor to become partners. From a business perspective it is certainly better for them. They have better control of their brand and can avoid their image being diluted by the decisions of others.

For the customer, it means higher prices, but also means centralised customer service, and a really good one at that.

I am not sure what is wrong in Haraki giving the overseas market to Giles?

IH Japan could be getting extra payments from IHUK in exchange for exclusive overseas rights. Pure guess on my part; I don't know how that works on a global scale in terms of anti-competitive practices. I suspect it is fine; diamond cartels are doing quite well, thank you very much. And if there are enough people willing to pay $500 for a quality pair of pants + excellent customer service, who am I to criticize that? I do love my second hand IH canvas chinos, I will say that.

 

[red devil]

IH Japan could be getting extra payments from IHUK in exchange for exclusive overseas rights. Pure guess on my part; I don't know how that works on a global scale in terms of anti-competitive practices. I suspect it is fine; diamond cartels are doing quite well, thank you very much. And if there are enough people willing to pay $500 for a quality pair of pants + excellent customer service, who am I to criticize that? I do love my second hand IH canvas chinos, I will say that.

Ah yes, I don't really know how that works either.

But then again we are talking about how a successful company in the Japanese denim world decides to distribute itself, not about a monopoly over their sector. As far as I am aware, there are many Japanese denim brands available for us to buy whether in the US or the EU, correct? (I have not worn denim in a while, and it is not looking likely I will wear any before losing at least another 5kg lol)

Buying second hand is always an option indeed

 

[Jasonissm]

Ah yes, I don't really know how that works either.

But then again we are talking about how a successful company in the Japanese denim world decides to distribute itself, not about a monopoly over their sector. As far as I am aware, there are many Japanese denim brands available for us to buy whether in the US or the EU, correct? (I have not worn denim in a while, and it is not looking likely I will wear any before losing at least another 5kg lol)

Buying second hand is always an option indeed

As a cheapskate, I don't shop at the international denim stores, the prices are higher and I am not local to them so it would just be online shopping anyways for me and I can't try them on nor would it be particularly easy or cheap to return for sizing.

So for me, the difference is that other brands like Warehouse, Sugar Cane, TCB and more, I can get them from Japanese retailers for the Japanese domestic price minus their sales tax (so even cheaper than for their domestic customers) and sometimes even shipped for free from some retailers. Iron Heart distribution is heavily controlled so their domestic stores aren't allowed to ship abroad so my only option is going through Iron Heart UK.

As I said, I am very budget concious so that makes a big difference for me, because comparing like for like, Iron Heart would be significantly more expensive than other brands that would be the same price tier in Japan.

That being said, I had a great experience dealing with them for my Wesco boots, so for brands like GOOD ART HLYWD, I'd go with them because it's the same price as others and they have a generous shipping policy.

 

[red devil]

As a cheapskate, I don't shop at the international denim stores, the prices are higher and I am not local to them so it would just be online shopping anyways for me and I can't try them on nor would it be particularly easy or cheap to return for sizing.

So for me, the difference is that other brands like Warehouse, Sugar Cane, TCB and more, I can get them from Japanese retailers for the Japanese domestic price minus their sales tax (so even cheaper than for their domestic customers) and sometimes even shipped for free from some retailers. Iron Heart distribution is heavily controlled so their domestic stores aren't allowed to ship abroad so my only option is going through Iron Heart UK.

As I said, I am very budget concious so that makes a big difference for me, because comparing like for like, Iron Heart would be significantly more expensive than other brands that would be the same price tier in Japan.

That being said, I had a great experience dealing with them for my Wesco boots, so for brands like GOOD ART HLYWD, I'd go with them because it's the same price as others and they have a generous shipping policy.

Thanks for the context.

It makes sense for you to get the most value for your money, I would not call this being a cheapskate personally.

In the US, you are lucky to be able to buy such items without paying any customs, here in the UK it is cutthroat lol

 

[El Marro]

What fabric do you like the best? I haven't touched heavy denim since I first started getting into denim but it was a cheap Chinese brand that didn't really impress me. I've been interested in trying one of Iron Hearts 21 oz or 25 oz since they get so much hype.

To be honest I do not own a single pair of IH jeans, but I do own four or five of their denim jackets. I think my favorites are the 21 oz Selvedge and the 21 oz Selvedge overdye.
I have a couple pairs of heavy denim from other makers but these days I pretty much only wear my Kuhl khakis. I love the idea of heavy denim but I don’t really like wearing it.

 

[Brandrea33]

I think I’m up to about 7 pairs of IH denim. Beyond their 21 oz, they have a lot of interesting options. I have 14 oz, 18 oz, left handed twill and my favourite 16 oz slub.


I guess they’re pricey but compared to other denims of similar quality I think they are reasonably priced.

Their UHFs are incredible.

 

[navetsea]

I never understand the passion or reason behind $400 jeans...I always think for what it is you pay $200 too much.

 

[konadog]

I never understand the passion or reason behind $400 jeans...I always think for what it is you pay $200 too much.

This could be said about almost anything in the world from organic produce to German cars to small batch tequila.

 

[Will Zach]

This could be said about almost anything in the world from organic produce to German cars to small batch tequila.

.... or $200 t-shirts or baseball hats.

There is an overpriced item for everyone!

 

[navetsea]

This could be said about almost anything in the world from organic produce to German cars to small batch tequila.

True, but 5 pocket jeans are just 5 pocket jeans, and from what I see from IH it doesnt come with anything extra, if the buttons are leather backed, or the crotch area is double reinforced, or if the back yoke is lined, or if the pocket bag is made from special fabrics perhaps kevlar it would be different story, because in my country i can buy heavy weight raw with lined yoke raised belt loop and raised pocket edges, for around $150-170

 

[Tom71]

True, but 5 pocket jeans are just 5 pocket jeans, and from what I see from IH it doesnt come with anything extra, if the buttons are leather backed, or the crotch area is double reinforced, or if the back yoke is lined, or if the pocket bag is made from special fabrics perhaps kevlar it would be different story, because in my country i can buy heavy weight raw with lined yoke raised belt loop and raised pocket edges, for around $150-170

You‘re right, of course, and yet I can only echo what @konadog and @Will Zach said. Overpricing is not exclusive to IH nor do they do it excessively.
I just read a paper about how LVMH basically equipped the whole Paris Olympic Games and how one of their Luis Vuitton bags that sells for EUR 4.500 is produced for a little over EUR 60.

Personally, I’d rather pay an overprice on a pair of IH jeans than on a pair of Levi’s 501. The later I just did again half a year ago (nostalgia!), and I was and still am shocked how badly made they are These days. And they go for EUR 120 over here.
IH starts at EUR 300 in Europe which I find right on the money.

Last thing: you live in a neck of the world with excellent craftsmanship and a variety of small businesses. This niche has all but bled out in large parts of the “first“ (??!?) world, with the remaining craftspeople manufacturing “white labels” for the big tickets or selling at premium prices themselves.

 

[Will Zach]

I think IH is popular with people who like their clothes very well-made and are willing to pay accordingly. That is different (I think) from the crowd which purchases a $4,500 Louis Vuitton bag, which I think they do more for the brand value.

As a card-carrying cheapskate and lover of solidly made things I go for pre-owned IH. Or new quality denim that @navetsea I am sure can recommend from his neck of the woods.

 

[red devil]

You‘re right, of course, and yet I can only echo what @konadog and @Will Zach said. Overpricing is not exclusive to IH nor do they do it excessively.
I just read a paper about how LVMH basically equipped the whole Paris Olympic Games and how one of their Luis Vuitton bags that sells for EUR 4.500 is produced for a little over EUR 60.

Personally, I’d rather pay an overprice on a pair of IH jeans than on a pair of Levi’s 501. The later I just did again half a year ago (nostalgia!), and I was and still am shocked how badly made they are These days. And they go for EUR 120 over here.
IH starts at EUR 300 in Europe which I find right on the money.

Last thing: you live in a neck of the world with excellent craftsmanship and a variety of small businesses. This niche has all but bled out in large parts of the “first“ (??!?) world, with the remaining craftspeople manufacturing “white labels” for the big tickets or selling at premium prices themselves.

LVMH is the best example as you mentioned, they go for "high volume luxury" which is a contradiction in itself. Unfortunately they have been very successful and bought so many brands.

 

[navetsea]

I think IH is popular with people who like their clothes very well-made and are willing to pay accordingly. That is different (I think) from the crowd which purchases a $4,500 Louis Vuitton bag, which I think they do more for the brand value.

As a card-carrying cheapskate and lover of solidly made things I go for pre-owned IH. Or new quality denim that @navetsea I am sure can recommend from his neck of the woods.

https://www.warpweft.co/collections/exquisite-series
this one for example has unique pocket bag matching yoke lining, fabrics from japan mills, raised pocket edge, raised belt loop, custom YKK hardware, unsanforized.

I only have 1 of their pants my first raw, and my only unsanforized because I still can't really get past leg twisting look, but I think it gives a lot value for their price

 

[deltawhiskey]

Did you see any 888 cuts at this particular store?

 

[jchance]

True, but 5 pocket jeans are just 5 pocket jeans, and from what I see from IH it doesnt come with anything extra, if the buttons are leather backed, or the crotch area is double reinforced, or if the back yoke is lined, or if the pocket bag is made from special fabrics perhaps kevlar it would be different story, because in my country i can buy heavy weight raw with lined yoke raised belt loop and raised pocket edges, for around $150-170

You prob havent felt IH 21oz. It feels like cashmere and not at all like a heavyweight denim. IH is known for its fabric and its attention to detail—you wouldn’t be able to find a loose stitch anywhere.

 

[ton312]

It’s a really disgusting enterprise which doesn’t get the heat it deserves.

Basically some reseller labelled itself “Iron Heart UK” and then strong armed Iron Heart into giving them a monopoly on all foreign sales, including from other foreign shops, so Giles and co get their margin no matter where outside of Japan you buy it.

The only way I’d buy Iron Heart is in Japan. Not giving those guys a penny. And even then I probably wouldn’t buy them lest I look like part of Giles's “Iron Heart Army” cult. They actually kicked out one of their biggest customers (Superfluous who was on here as well) because he advised IHUK on their forum against an unscrupulous business partner, whilst praising Giles, and even this was seen as too much questioning of the Great Leader.

Had you not pointed this out years ago, I’d have never known. I’m glad you did. I haven’t bought from IHUK since and I won’t ever again. The last pair of super blacks I bought from a eBay’r in Japan, brand new with tags:$175 SHIPPED. IHUK is absolutely taking people for a ride. I agree their service is great and shipping is light speed fast. But nevertheless, it’s straight up greed. Particularly (b/c at least from what I can tell) they have zero input otherwise. They are a middle man in its purest form. Zero design, material or construction input. Way over priced proxy. And that’s it.

 

[red devil]

Had you not pointed this out years ago, I’d have never known. I’m glad you did. I haven’t bought from IHUK since and I won’t ever again. The last pair of super blacks I bought from a eBay’r in Japan, brand new with tags:$175 SHIPPED. IHUK is absolutely taking people for a ride. I agree their service is great and shipping is light speed fast. But nevertheless, it’s straight up greed. Particularly (b/c at least from what I can tell) they have zero input otherwise. They are a middle man in its purest form. Zero design, material or construction input. Way over priced proxy. And that’s it.

They are business partners and have had input in the collection since I have known them... which is quite some time, maybe 8 years?

 

[El Marro]

I am very happy to pay a markup to IHUK because without them I would not have the slightest clue how to buy their products. I have tried shopping the Japanese websites for items from brands like Buzz Rickson and Lee Japan. It has proven to be a frustrating waste of time and that’s why I am glad that IHUK exists. Awesome customer service in my language and super fast shipping make it all worthwhile for me.