Interesting information about Horween leather

[sweetfights]

Yeah like how CXL is corrected grain technically.

Even my RMC in Shinki is 'corrected' because it has the pattern pressed into it even though it's made from full grain Shinki.

Would like to see a close photo of your RMC "corrected". And does Freewheelers also come "corrected".

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Would like to see a close photo of your RMC "corrected". And does Freewheelers also come "corrected".

My Freewheelers jackets don't come corrected as far as I understand and from what I can see. Freewheelers does the finishing themselves, but that's in terms of the color.

 

[jonbuilder]

I am thinking of making a jacket with the topcoat part of the hide split but using the underside of the split as the finish side for the jacket. I would think this would make a better jacket than suede where the bottom of the hide split is used. I would guess the texture would be identical unless the splicing process creates two different surfaces
The suede or skin side of the split I have noticed being described as the leftover from the desired top or hair side of the split.

 

[handymike]

Isn’t that called “rough-out”?

 

[jonbuilder]

Reading through the article Hh posted I get that full-grain is noncorrected hair side of a split hide. Can anyone explain how the hair is removed without considering correcting it? I assume it must be part of the chemical process of tanning and no abrasion scraping is used.

 

[Marc mndt]

I am thinking of making a jacket with the topcoat part of the hide split but using the underside of the split as the finish side for the jacket.

'roughout'?

"So, to explain rough out leather, one has to understand leather itself. What IS leather?

The leather is the dried, cured skin of an animal, typically cow but horsehide, wild game (deer/elk/moose) and kid (juvenile goat) hide can be used as well. The meat and fat have been cut away.

The skin has three primary layers. There's the epidermis (the hard outer layer) the dermis (the softer middle layer) and the hypodermis, the squishy part of the skin that connects the skin to subcutaneous fat and muscle tissue.

In leather work, the epidermis is the grain, the dermis is the junction, and the hypodermis is called the corium. The corium is rougher but the grain is smoother. You might suspect the corium, given its fibrous nature, is what's used to make suede.

And you would be right! Suede is made by splitting the corium away from the junction and the grain. A common practice is for a tannery to split the junction and grain away from the corium, selling the latter as suede and the former as full-grain leather (after additional finishing) or top grain leather.

So, what is roughout leather?


The rough out leather is the underside of the grain-corium junction. If you were to saw a leather boot made with full-grain leather in half, the roughout would be on the inside of the boot. In other words, it's typical leather turned inside-out"

Source: https://nicksboots.com/blog/post/is-roughout-leather-good-for-work-boots/

 

[jonbuilder]

Isn’t that called “rough-out”?

Exactly I assume this is what White's does with their standard oil-tanned leather and call it rough out. It meets US specs for wildfire boots

 

[jonbuilder]

'roughout'?

"So, to explain rough out leather, one has to understand leather itself. What IS leather?

The leather is the dried, cured skin of an animal, typically cow but horsehide, wild game (deer/elk/moose) and kid (juvenile goat) hide can be used as well. The meat and fat have been cut away.

The skin has three primary layers. There's the epidermis (the hard outer layer) the dermis (the softer middle layer) and the hypodermis, the squishy part of the skin that connects the skin to subcutaneous fat and muscle tissue.

In leather work, the epidermis is the grain, the dermis is the junction, and the hypodermis is called the corium. The corium is rougher but the grain is smoother. You might suspect the corium, given its fibrous nature, is what's used to make suede.

And you would be right! Suede is made by splitting the corium away from the junction and the grain. A common practice is for a tannery to split the junction and grain away from the corium, selling the latter as suede and the former as full-grain leather (after additional finishing) or top grain leather.

So, what is roughout leather?


The rough out leather is the underside of the grain-corium junction. If you were to saw a leather boot made with full-grain leather in half, the roughout would be on the inside of the boot. In other words, it's typical leather turned inside-out"

Source: https://nicksboots.com/blog/post/is-roughout-leather-good-for-work-boots/

This is good Marc if I understand correctly the exterior of jackets made with roughout and suede will be identical. The difference is the inside of the leather against the linning of a roughout jacket will be harder may more durable but less comfortable and less drape than suede. If the expense is not a consideration, a hide could be split with the corium and skin side of the split the primary side of the split to be used for suede and the epidermis side of the split the leftover side. Perhaps premium suede could be sourced from splitting the hide twice using the center and toss the inside and outside splits to dial in the desired durability and drape.

 

[navetsea]

if I want a suede jacket I will probably go with nubuck, suede will turn shaggy and grubby and never or very hard to get patina. Nubuck look a bit similar when new, but has a lot shorter naps, so it would get shiny on contact area, will show faded color from abrasion and sun faster than both suede and finished leather (suede naps can move around and don't get abrasion enough, and sun is only fading one side of the hair, and will show darker color back when you brush them the other way, and finished grain has protective coat more UV resistant than suede or nubuck). will look unique with matte - glossy contrast after some wear, would get a lot more character imo.

 

[navetsea]

My boots is a rough out nubuck, i wanted a full nubuck boots but the guy who made it convinced me it would be better when it is a suede side out with nubuck side out for detailing... i swear i would be much happier with the whole boots now looking like that harness part or that polished smooth edge trimming... the nubuck side out just get tons of characters while the suede side just looking new, i rub beeswax near the toes to show some character to the suede... since it never get enough wear to look the part.

 

[regius]

This is a test jacket I’m making for my own enjoyment. It’s made out of three colors of Horween’s Dublin, maybe one is actually the metropolitan I’m not sure and my sales rep can’t tell either. Anyway, the russet piece is probably the most heavenly textured horsehide out there. It’s not “deertan”, but as you can see, the leather is very plush and drapey. It has a powdery feel to the touch yes very strong. Completely opposite feel to CXL, which feels cold and waxy (how it’s supposed to be), this one feels warm, and intimate and make you just want to hug it. It’s a bit like the way vinyl record make people feel versus CD

 

[regius]

A rather large jacket it turned out! Should fit a size 44-46 chest with sleeve 26”. The quilted lining added a lot of body so the whole jacket feel like wearing a blanket, not bad for winter.

 

[regius]

A bit long in the sleeves as it turned out. The Dublin is quite stretchy so next one will have to be trimmer all round.

 

[Marc mndt]

A bit long in the sleeves as it turned out. The Dublin is quite stretchy so next one will have to be trimmer all round.

I love the shape of that collar.

 

[regius]

This is good Marc if I understand correctly the exterior of jackets made with roughout and suede will be identical. The difference is the inside of the leather against the linning of a roughout jacket will be harder may more durable but less comfortable and less drape than suede. If the expense is not a consideration, a hide could be split with the corium and skin side of the split the primary side of the split to be used for suede and the epidermis side of the split the leftover side. Perhaps premium suede could be sourced from splitting the hide twice using the center and toss the inside and outside splits to dial in the desired durability and drape.

Suede would be the least durable, and now I know why. Animal skin is the body’s first line of defense, imagine we go about without the epidermis layer of our skin. Not cool! Suede would be even worse that that, the middle layer is removed too! So the weakest layer is left and it’s “suede” (with the shaved side facing out). This layer (whichever side facing out) confers little protection against element.

 

[ton312]

A bit long in the sleeves as it turned out. The Dublin is quite stretchy so next one will have to be trimmer all round.

You did it!! Rebuilt the Herc!! Nicely done man!! Really nice!

 

[navetsea]

Suede would be the least durable, and now I know why. Animal skin is the body’s first line of defense, imagine we go about without the epidermis layer of our skin. Not cool! Suede would be even worse that that, the middle layer is removed too! So the weakest layer is left and it’s “suede” (with the shaved side facing out). This layer (whichever side facing out) confers little protection against element.

I wonder will it ever crack, maybe it will never crack, it kinda looks like kitchen scouring pad in its fiber construction....
But i guess if it gets wet in cold climate it will get frost shards into the suede and probably rip it apart from inside, as long as you wear it in temperate and dry climate probably it will last forever. Will never cracks since there is nothing to crack and peel from.

 

[Tim Tempest]

Drakes do a "Roughout" overshirt but inside it is not shiny ,it must therefore be split suede not full grain Roughout ?
This is very misleading,possible to justify the extortionate price tag..it does drape nicely though