Input on Quality and Fit of Less Expensive A-2 Jackets

[Jeff M]

Before it drifts into another, "GO Aeroleather!" pitch, and buzzwords like, "Premium leather", "quality craftsmanship", and "price increase" etc., start to take it off course and try to justify $1,000 for a jacket; ...

Well, I don't own an Aeroleather or Good Wear. Hoping to one day.
The way I look at it, it's their $$, their sweat went into earning it.
Nobody has to "justify" how they spend it to me.
They can do whatever they want with it.

 

[Tone]

Here's the full quote, not taken out of context. Hope it helps.

Before it drifts into another, "GO Aeroleather!" pitch, and buzzwords like, "Premium leather", "quality craftsmanship", and "price increase" etc., start to take it off course and try to justify $1,000 for a jacket; the original topic was,

"Input on Quality and Fit of Less Expensive A-2 Jackets"

Does anyone have some of these models (owns them; has these models, in particular, for show) specifically?

 

[Annixter]

Although the thread is still young, I question if we will be seeing much side by side comparison with pictures of the jackets under my original inquiry: the current issue Cockpit, the US Wings current issue, the G & B WWII reproduction, and the US Authentic WWII reproduction A-2. As many have pointed out, acquiring information and pictures of these jackets in particular, or at least comparable one's within the same price rang, is the point of my posting.

Many have contributed valuable information to the discussion, which I'm thankful for, leading me to hold the US Authentic A-2 as my first choice as of right now. I hope advice continues along the topic lines so that we all can have a better idea about the benefits and drawbacks of some more affordable options that I'm sure many people are either confined to or at least prefer over more expensive jackets.

 

[Silver Dollar]

The biggest problem with the less expensive jackets is that they are not total reproductions of original contract A2's. They have modifications, inaccuracies and non authentic brown shades. Like I mentioned before, if you really don't care about the authentic WWII fit, the total accuracy of features and color, then the current Cockpit jacket is a good deal. Also as I mentioned before, cow hide, horse hide or goatskin, you can't go wrong. The lambskin is just a little too delicate for me no matter how well the jacket is made. It isn't a poor material at all. It's not as durable as some of the others. In my mind, it's the same thing between silk and denim.

 

[kiltie]

Here's my pitch:
The old Banana Republic Travel and Safari A-2 style is a really solid jacket. Really solid. And they turn up on Ebay all the time in all sizes for under a bill. They're goat skin and the cut is surprisingly authentic. Scovill ( sp? ) zipper, tapered epaulets, scalloped pockets, no snaps on the stormflap.... The only drawbacks might possibly be the excessively aged look, brown liner rather than rust or mustard or whatever, and handwarmer pockets. Oh, on no throat latch. But those are nit picks, and we're talking A-2 style, not repro.
Anyway, they were US made, and really tough jackets. I remember always wanting one as a teenager, but they were high dollar back then. I got mine offa eBay for fifty bones and bought another for my dad for something like forty. Big sizes ( 46 & 44, respectively ).
If anyone is interested in pics, lemme know.

 

[Jeff M]

Here's the full quote, not taken out of context. Hope it helps.

Helps tremendously.
As nobody (as far as I can tell) has, the comment about people "justifying" their purchases came completely out of left field.

 

[Tone]

Good. Then we're all on the same page regarding the jackets in question for this thread.

Banana Republic A2, huh? Yeah, Kiltie. If you wanted to post a few pics (or if you have somewhere else) of that I'd be interested in seeing it.

Any of them turn up in "new" condition? Or usually pre-worn?

*Oh, cool. I found some of these already. Those do look good for their price. Just a matter of waiting on the right size. Thanks for adding the BR into the mix.

 

[aswatland]

The fit of a WWII A2 just doesn't appeal to me as it isn't that functional and that's why the modern jacket is looser-fitting as that's what the pilots want.

What exactly do you mean about the fit of original A2s not being functional? Have you ever owned one or worn one for that matter?

 

[Republic_Flier]

What exactly do you mean about the fit of original A2s not being functional? Have you ever owned one or worn one for that matter?

Well I have a Cooper issue A2 jacket and the fit is alot like you in your picture. I can't raise my arms up and it's just too tight for me. That's just my two cents.

 

[aswatland]

Sounds as if it is too tight as this is not a problem with any of my original A2s.

 

[WolfeMan]

Here's my pitch:
The old Banana Republic Travel and Safari A-2 style is a really solid jacket. Really solid. And they turn up on Ebay all the time in all sizes for under a bill. They're goat skin and the cut is surprisingly authentic. Scovill ( sp? ) zipper, tapered epaulets, scalloped pockets, no snaps on the stormflap.... The only drawbacks might possibly be the excessively aged look, brown liner rather than rust or mustard or whatever, and handwarmer pockets. Oh, on no throat latch. But those are nit picks, and we're talking A-2 style, not repro.
Anyway, they were US made, and really tough jackets. I remember always wanting one as a teenager, but they were high dollar back then. I got mine offa eBay for fifty bones and bought another for my dad for something like forty. Big sizes ( 46 & 44, respectively ).
If anyone is interested in pics, lemme know.

Ive got one of these that was given to me by 442 RCT (Pretty sure he said it was banana republic) That he had tried to shrink multiple times with the hot water and dryer treatment but didnt have any luck with it. Didnt have too much effect3, so it really is a bullet proof jacket. Ill try and put some photos up, had a few but they got deleted when i was clearing some space for more important things.
Wolfe

 

[Annixter]

What exactly do you mean about the fit of original A2s not being functional? Have you ever owned one or worn one for that matter?

I think you are being pompous in asking if Republic Flier has ever owned an original A2, suggesting that he/she is a liar because his opinion differs from yours. If Republic Flier has an opinion on fit, he/she is entitled to it without any need for your cross examination and waffling that one has no valid opinion unless he owns an original A2 and agrees with your opinion of them.

I respect your experience in the field of leather jackets, but I'd hate to see the original thread topic turn into yet another debate about original A2s versus fakes like so many other worthwhile threads have devolved into.

 

[aswatland]

I think you are being pompous in asking if Republic Flier has ever owned an original A2, suggesting that he/she is a liar because his opinion differs from yours. If Republic Flier has an opinion on fit, he/she is entitled to it without any need for your cross examination and waffling that one has no valid opinion unless he owns an original A2 and agrees with your opinion of them.

I respect your experience in the field of leather jackets, but I'd hate to see the original thread topic turn into yet another debate about original A2s versus fakes like so many other worthwhile threads have devolved into.

Everyone is entitled to their views and I was merely asking for evidence to back up an assertion. To call me pompous is uncalled for and not in keeping with the spirit of this forum.

 

[442RCT]

I own a lot of Cooper A-2s, both the mil. issue version (with velcro name/sqdn patches), the Saddlery labeled jacket, and probably the civilian version. I nominally wear a a size 40, but in a Cooper, I prefer their sz 42 as they give me more shoulder and arm room. My experience with Cooper A-2s is they really need to be broken in to feel 'good'. Although the leather of a new Cooper is soft, the 'fit' isn't. Once broken in, a Cooper will feel like a second skin. This pretty much goes for any A-2 jacket...they need to be properly broken in. I was lucky enough to buy two used jackets, (an ELC warhorse hide and and Aero) from a VLJ Forum member who knew how to break in a jacket, and they are my 2 favorite jackets for fit and feel.

ps- after becoming a VLJ forum member, I doubt I'll buy any more Cooper's unless it's got a really nice paintjob..."Planes, names, and dames". [huh]

 

[Feraud]

Let's not get up in arms here..
It is natural for the topic to wander in the natural course of discussion.
I do not see anything blatantly offensive about one member asking another to clarify their comments.
If we are discussing the quality and fit of less expensive a2s and someone references original flight jackets then the conversation is being broadened to include original a2s. If we open up the conversation it is acceptable to question along those lines.
Let cool heads prevail and enjoy the conversation.

 

[Creeping Past]

I think assumptions are often made on both 'sides' in the debate about what's considered to be a good fitting jacket. This comes up often in threads touching on high, tight armhole (here's one, just for reference, to illustrate what I mean and to broaden the discussion on fit even further.)

Those who favour a more generous cut designed for the on average larger-framed modern men, often dismiss vintage jackets as not up to the task of clothing the man of the 21st century because of the problem of average-sizing. But this is a straw man argument, I think.

Conversely, a small number of 'originalists' regard vintage original jackets as the benchmark for fit, which is not an unreasonable position to take. But even a quick look at period photos (on display in numerous A-2 threads on FL) shows a great range of different fits, including saggy, tight, too-short, etc., reflecting the difficulty of getting an issue garment of the correct size in wartime.

Beyond these assumptions, which too often lead to assertions and counter-claims, there's some really interesting information to be had through direct experience and comparative study - and it can only be got to through questions being asked.

 

[adamjaskie]

I have the US Wings jacket. It's held up well for a year or so, and I've worn it a lot. No complaints. It fits well, it's comfortable, and it seems to be durable. I don't really have anything to compare it to, though.

 

[Silver Dollar]

I own a lot of Cooper A-2s, both the mil. issue version (with velcro name/sqdn patches), the Saddlery labeled jacket, and probably the civilian version. I nominally wear a a size 40, but in a Cooper, I prefer their sz 42 as they give me more shoulder and arm room. My experience with Cooper A-2s is they really need to be broken in to feel 'good'. Although the leather of a new Cooper is soft, the 'fit' isn't. Once broken in, a Cooper will feel like a second skin. This pretty much goes for any A-2 jacket...they need to be properly broken in. I was lucky enough to buy two used jackets, (an ELC warhorse hide and and Aero) from a VLJ Forum member who knew how to break in a jacket, and they are my 2 favorite jackets for fit and feel.

ps- after becoming a VLJ forum member, I doubt I'll buy any more Cooper's unless it's got a really nice paintjob..."Planes, names, and dames". [huh]

What is the right way to break in a leather jacket? I've just worn mine when the weather is right for the A2. If there's a way to get them to look better on me, that's for me.

 

[Annixter]

Let cool heads prevail and enjoy the conversation.

I apologize for hypocritically detracting from the thread myself.

 

[Annixter]

I have the US Wings jacket. It's held up well for a year or so, and I've worn it a lot. No complaints. It fits well, it's comfortable, and it seems to be durable. I don't really have anything to compare it to, though.

Would it be possible to get more information on the year of the jacket and also a few pictures of you wearing it? Something along the lines of a front shot zipped and fastened at the collar, front shot opened, and a back shot with front fastened would give us one US Wings to compare other manufacturers to.