Influence of Fashion on uniforms

[benstephens]

I have been thinking today how prevailing fashions influence the uniforms of the armed services.

Perhaps this was more so in the 1940s when you had a large number of "Civilian Conscripts".

I have seen officers service dress with 12" width trousers, RAF uniforms with turn ups (Although unofficial) and soldiers making flared trousers for walking out.

I would like to discuss examples of official and official elements of uniform that conform to the prevailling fashion.

Kindest regards

Ben

 

[Geesie]

Sadly, most people will tell you to put your cover on square these days instead of cocking it as fashion used to dictate.

 

[YETI]

I Like Ike

Even though the higher waist cut uniform originated in Great Britain, Eisenhower helped popularize it in America after the war. Hence those late 40s - 50s gab jackets were often referred to as "Ike" jackets. The younger rockabilly crowd today call em "Ricky" jackets unfortunately.

 

[Fletch]

Sadly, most people will tell you to put your cover on square these days instead of cocking it as fashion used to dictate.

Goes to show you how the military has become more and more a distinct subculture over the years.

 

[WildCelt]

Sadly, most people will tell you to put your cover on square these days instead of cocking it as fashion used to dictate.

I cocked my cover as often as I could get away with. I'd give it a rakish tilt and wait until someone got on my case for it. When they went away, I'd tilt it back again. I made some people rather irate (of course, calling it a "Marine hat" didn't help either).

 

[H.Johnson]

Ben,

Then I think we need go no further than the thread on Luftwaffe flying jackets...

I'm not sure whether you mean the influence of fashion on official uniforms, or in modifying uniforms. The former is, of course, difficult to trace with war-time officers' dress, as so much of it was private purchase and could, within certain limits, be specified. The gusset added to the iseam of BD trousers is an excellent example of the latter - and was, in my experience, fairly common.

Other WW2 British 'adoptions' would include the 'Hebron' coat, desert boots, pullovers and corduroys - all 8th Army of course and tolerated due to the conditions. See 'The Two Types' for cartoon representations of these. And those Indian leather sandals - what were they called?


As to official influences - what about the beret?

I have been thinking today how prevailing fashions influence the uniforms of the armed services.

Perhaps this was more so in the 1940s when you had a large number of "Civilian Conscripts".

I have seen officers service dress with 12" width trousers, RAF uniforms with turn ups (Although unofficial) and soldiers making flared trousers for walking out.

I would like to discuss examples of official and official elements of uniform that conform to the prevailling fashion.

Kindest regards

Ben

 

[benstephens]

Yes indeed. However, officially there were very strict rules concerning the pattern of uniform tailors were able to make, however, it seemed quite common that these rules were not always adhered to.

I am interested to discuss both official and unofficial. Battle dress was designed on the concept of 1930s ski wear, although, I tend to think this was more due to the practicality, but it still followed a civilian fashion. The ATS handbag, is that an instance of fashion or just a practical solution to the misuse of the respirator haversack. However, why choose a handbag?

Different theatres as you mention are quite interesting. The flouting of regulations in North Africa seems very common place, with tailoring being a lot cheaper and more men having access to it we without doubt see a much more vast array of unofficialdom in uniform.

There is obviously the reverse of this discussion as well, the influence the military has on civilian fashion, yet I feel this is a well covered topic.

Kindest Regards

Ben

 

[H.Johnson]

Ben

Your reference to ski-wear is interesting in this context.

If you look at the uniforms of French and Italian mountain troups in WW2 (and Andrew Mollo's book shows both) their kit is clearly derived from that worn by Alpine sportsmen of the time.

And what about the Sahariana and the 'bush jacket', which I am sure could be traced back to earlier safari and tropical wear.

Come to think of it, not strictly uniform, but much WW2 flying gear (the Irvinsuit as an example) were originally intended for the civilian market as much as the military. See the amazing advert on the 'Irvin jacket' thread that shows a man putting on his Irvinsuit over a pinstripe suit without becoming dishevelled. I have actually tried this and it works.

 

[just_me]

Sorry for the dumb question, but are service men and women given several types of uniform (dress, combat, etc.), but they can have their own uniforms made if they want?

 

[Spitfire]

Sorry for the dumb question, but are service men and women given several types of uniform (dress, combat, etc.), but they can have their own uniforms made if they want?

If that's true, I will sign up right now - and get me one of these:

lol

 

[Edward]

The black SS uniform was, of course, designed by Hugo Boss as we all know. Seems a very clear case of a fashion-house influencing a uniform look.

The A2 always put me in mind of many of the 30s civilian jackets in a very general sense, i.e. a basic, short, leather jacket with a collar, albeit one that was then adapted for purpose (cuffs to keep out drafts, lack of hand-warmer pockets to discorage slouching, etc).

The stereotype I have in my head is that the Wehrmacht uniforms were much more stylised than the Allied equivalents, the latter being more focussed on practicality, or at least following tradition. I'm sure though that there are many examples which prove this wrong, though!

 

[BellyTank]

Really not sure if the Hugo Boss connection is actually there... must dig deeper.
Don't know if there was actually a fashion house at that stage, either.

Wehrmacht uniforms were indeed stylised- "engineered" to optimise the manly aesthetic of the average physique- high waist, short skirt and short arms on the tunics makes for extra height and long legs. They were a progression from the earlier traditional uniform styles, though.

A-2 jacket was a casual jacket, gone military, as was the A-1.


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[Lone_Ranger]

Sorry for the dumb question, but are service men and women given several types of uniform (dress, combat, etc.), but they can have their own uniforms made if they want?

Yes. And, no.

Officers, at least in the US Army are required to purchase their uniforms. So, you can to an extent, purchase a uniform that may be a little better than the 'issue' one, but you can't really make any variations to it.

In the Army Manual 670-1 "Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia" there is an exception for General Officers.

 

[skbellis]

Desert Sandals

"And those Indian leather sandals - what were they called?"

H.Johnson,

I believe the sandals you were referring to were called Chaplis. Jerry Lee at What Price Glory is working on reproducing these. He currently has the heavy socks made that were worn with them http://onlinemilitaria.net/shopexd.asp?id=3933&bc=no .

And in reference to the "Two Types" here is a reproduction of one of the sweaters we see one of the chaps wearing: http://onlinemilitaria.net/shopexd.asp?id=3558&bc=no

Cheers,

---Scott

 

[Lone_Ranger]

I have been thinking today how prevailing fashions influence the uniforms of the armed services.

Perhaps this was more so in the 1940s when you had a large number of "Civilian Conscripts".

I would like to discuss examples of official and official elements of uniform that conform to the prevailling fashion.

Kindest regards

Ben

I would say, the farther back you go, the more fashion influence there is to uniforms. The more modern uniforms tend to be more practical.

I'd say Napoleonic era was the height of fashion. Back when you'd wear your best dress uniform into battle. The more modern weapons, required the development of a separate "field" uniform in addition to the "dress" uniform. (Like the Hussar uniform above)

For example, in WWI where the campaign hat was phased out when the steel helmet was phased in.

You also see the darker colors starting to be phased in. The "feldgrau" German uniforms in WWI. The British use of khaki. WWII you start to see camouflage in common use. Now with the use of night vision, you see the introduction of "digital" camouflage.

You also see the field uniforms designed to actually work in the field. With the new US Army ACU's, the pockets, and collar were designed knowing that the soldier will wear a flack vest, in combat. On older field uniforms, the pockets were useless when you had your flak vest, and combat suspenders on.

 

[H.Johnson]

Scott,

'Chaplis' - yes thanks. My memory isn't what it was.

"And those Indian leather sandals - what were they called?"

H.Johnson,

I believe the sandals you were referring to were called Chaplis. Jerry Lee at What Price Glory is working on reproducing these.
Cheers,

---Scott

 

[dhermann1]

When I was in the Marine Corps, from 1966 to 1969, the standard dress uniform tie was a very medium width. Around '67 they started introducing a much narrower tie. They basically were just catching up to the trend of the late 1950's and early 60's, towards super narrow ties. Of course by the time they implemented the change the trend had gone completely in the opposite direction. If they had left the tie just as it was throughout that period nobody would have been the wiser. It was an amusing encapsulation of just how out of touch the upper echelons of the military establishment can be.

 

[Rambo66]

Actually it's more likely the other way around. The influence of uniforms on fashion.

 

[Geesie]

Sorry for the dumb question, but are service men and women given several types of uniform (dress, combat, etc.), but they can have their own uniforms made if they want?

While uniforms are issued (enlisted) or purchased from authorized suppliers (officer), one can have a uniform made from better fabric and cut to a better fit than the lowest-bidder (but still expensive ) standard issue stuff. A lot of sailors will get dress uniforms made in Far East ports where the tailoring is good quality and cheap.

 

[BellyTank]

Chapplis...

...another Raj bastardisation.

"Chappals" is a common word for sandals, or shoes, in India.

Sounds like "Chupples".


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