If it quacks like a duck...

[Snowman]

I’ve seen this discussed in other threads, but I haven’t seen a clear resolution. I just acquired this Royal Stetson (which I believe is going to be a favorite of mine). The seller’s photos were horrible, so I couldn’t tell exactly what I was getting. It was described as a 1930’s Stetson in like new condition. Before I pulled the trigger, I did figure a couple of things: it wasn’t a 1930’s vintage, and it was in good condition at worst. I also had doubts about the originality of the pin and the feather. (The feather is definitely someone’s afterthought; it’s a broken one just tucked in the band). So, here is what I know: the hat is in practically unworn condition, with the only signs of any wear being very slight discoloration on the ribbon on the sweatband and some dirt where the pinch is. There was no crease when I got it (basically open crown), but it took a dry bash really easily; it works great with a cattleman’s crease or with the current strat-like teardrop. The brim is firm and snaps crisply. The store that sold it went out of business in the early ‘30s, but the liner, sweatband, and size tag say mid-to-late 1950s. Brim is exactly 2.5” and crown is 5” (4.5 as creased). All that to say, it’s not marked Open Road or Strat, but if it quacks like a duck...

What do you esteemed folks think?

 

[Bamaboots]

Relatively modern hat with a late 60’s / early 70’s size tag with more Strat like dimensions.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Nice hat.

That black rectangular size tag came into use sometime in the 1960s.

As for model: Stetson made/makes lots of hats that did not have the model name on the sweatband or liner. Without some provenance supporting it, I’m in the camp that believes you should call it “Open Road style” or something like that. It doesn’t matter if you’re keeping the hat, but when sellers make claims not supported by evidence then I have an issue.

At 2 1/2 inches, the brim is shorter than most Open Roads. It’s right on for a Strat, but if it’s not marked as such....? If it were mine I’d call it a thin ribbon fedora or a Strat/OR “style” fedora, and leave it at that. I wouldn’t have heartburn over you calling it anything you want.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Plastic liner protector. Maple leaf crests.

 

[Snowman]

Plastic liner protector. Maple leaf crests.

Yes, and yes.

 

[Snowman]

Nice hat.

That black rectangular size tag came into use sometime in the 1960s.

As for model: Stetson made/makes lots of hats that did not have the model name on the sweatband or liner. Without some provenance supporting it, I’m in the camp that believes you should call it “Open Road style” or something like that. It doesn’t matter if you’re keeping the hat, but when sellers make claims not supported by evidence then I have an issue.

At 2 1/2 inches, the brim is shorter than most Open Roads. It’s right on for a Strat, but if it’s not marked as such....? If it were mine I’d call it a thin ribbon fedora or a Strat/OR “style” fedora, and leave it at that. I wouldn’t have heartburn over you calling it anything you want.

Thanks for the input. I agree with all of it. Initially, the pin was an attractor for me, but on closer inspection it is nothing like a Strat pin. Too small, wrong “incorrect” aircraft. It does serve to accentuate the resemblance to a Strat though. I wore the hat all day taking my grandson to a farm, and it’ll be a keeper.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Yes, and yes.

It's generally accepted that plastic liner protectors replaced onion skin ~1953.

The Stetson family sold out & the new owners were contract manufacturing & licensing the Stetson name, well in place by 1976.

With the maple leaf embossing & liner crest in your hat it was likely manufactured in Canada even though sold in the US; likely why it's not stamped as a Stratoliner. In the earliest versions of the switch in company you will often see a sweat with stars or a maple leaf & the liner crest with the opposite. It was likely manufactured under contract between 1976 & the bankruptcy filed in 1986.

 

[BobHufford]

The store was around post 1967 or 1968 anyway (the captions don't seem to agree):

 

[Frunobulax]

It's generally accepted that plastic liner protectors replaced onion skin ~1953.

The Stetson family sold out & the new owners were contract manufacturing & licensing the Stetson name, well in place by 1976.

With the maple leaf embossing & liner crest in your hat it was likely manufactured in Canada even though sold in the US; likely why it's not stamped as a Stratoliner. In the earliest versions of the switch in company you will often see a sweat with stars or a maple leaf & the liner crest with the opposite. It was likely manufactured under contract between 1976 & the bankruptcy filed in 1986.

What clues do you see that indicate Canadian manufacture?

 

[Frunobulax]

Thanks for the input. I agree with all of it. Initially, the pin was an attractor for me, but on closer inspection it is nothing like a Strat pin. Too small, wrong “incorrect” aircraft. It does serve to accentuate the resemblance to a Strat though. I wore the hat all day taking my grandson to a farm, and it’ll be a keeper.

Is there a re-order tag behind the sweat?

I'm of the "if it quacks like a duck" camp, if - if - there is other supporting evidence. I have a Stetson 3X that hasn't any Open Road markings, but the dimensions, block #, and everything else is spot on. I refer to it as an Open Road.

I also have a newer Excellent Strat. It only says Excellent Quality on the sweatband, and since I took off half that big-a$$ tag with the UPC on it, it no longer has any Strat markings. I think it's still a Strat.

 

[RossRYoung]

What clues do you see that indicate Canadian manufacture?

+1. I also think the liner and sweat maples can be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

What clues do you see that indicate Canadian manufacture?

It appears to come from the Stetson contract manufacturing era, perhaps even later. Have any post-bankruptcy hats ever been documented with maple leaves? Early post-bankruptcy hats seem to be when the Stetson logo changed yet again. During the contract manufacturing era apparently only Akubra was allowed to use the model names of Open Road, Boss of the Plains (that we know of) along with the Akubra name & manufactured for Stetson statement.

I don't see any dimensions or blocking of the OR. A ribbon & binding does not an OR make.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Is there a re-order tag behind the sweat?

I'm of the "if it quacks like a duck" camp, if - if - there is other supporting evidence. I have a Stetson 3X that hasn't any Open Road markings, but the dimensions, block #, and everything else is spot on. I refer to it as an Open Road.

I also have a newer Excellent Strat. It only says Excellent Quality on the sweatband, and since I took off half that big-a$$ tag with the UPC on it, it no longer has any Strat markings. I think it's still a Strat.

Nope. Once your tag detached it became a generic Stetson.
I think the box and the factory label count as adequate provenance to definitively call it a Stratoliner.

 

[Frunobulax]

It appears to come from the Stetson contract manufacturing era, perhaps even later. Have any post-bankruptcy hats ever been documented with maple leaves? Early post-bankruptcy hats seem to be when the Stetson logo changed yet again. During the contract manufacturing era apparently only Akubra was allowed to use the model names of Open Road, Boss of the Plains (that we know of) along with the Akubra name & manufactured for Stetson statement.

I don't see any dimensions or blocking of the OR. A ribbon & binding does not an OR make.

Cool. I recognize the shiny tag and other tell-tale signs on a Canadian Stetson, but didn't think about the other things.

Nope. Once your tag detached it became a generic Stetson.
I think the box and the factory label count as adequate provenance to definitively call it a Stratoliner.

It's a Strat, trust me!

 

[Snowman]

The store was around post 1967 or 1968 anyway (the captions don't seem to agree):

View attachment 278577

View attachment 278576

Yes, I also found this under the sweatband. It supports the 1960s sale date (and manufacture date, most likely). I believe it may have been the original J E Wood Outfitters that closed in 1933 or so.

Is there a re-order tag behind the sweat?

I'm of the "if it quacks like a duck" camp, if - if - there is other supporting evidence. I have a Stetson 3X that hasn't any Open Road markings, but the dimensions, block #, and everything else is spot on. I refer to it as an Open Road.

I also have a newer Excellent Strat. It only says Excellent Quality on the sweatband, and since I took off half that big-a$$ tag with the UPC on it, it no longer has any Strat markings. I think it's still a Strat.

No reorder tag, unless it’s under the liner, and I don’t want to detach the liner.

Is there any definitive date range on the crest? I was under the impression that it was a late 50s - early 60s crest, but if the Canadian theory is accurate, were the same liner crests used at the same time?

 

[Frunobulax]

Yes, I also found this under the sweatband. It supports the 1960s sale date (and manufacture date, most likely). I believe it may have been the original J E Wood Outfitters that closed in 1933 or so.
View attachment 278777



No reorder tag, unless it’s under the liner, and I don’t want to detach the liner.

Is there any definitive date range on the crest? I was under the impression that it was a late 50s - early 60s crest, but if the Canadian theory is accurate, were the same liner crests used at the same time?

While HJ has a some sound advice, I'm not 100% sold on the Canuckistan theory. It would seem the union tag would tell you something about location, but it's a little blurry to me.

No, I haven't started drinking.

Yet.

 

[Snowman]

While HJ has a some sound advice, I'm not 100% sold on the Canuckistan theory. It would seem the union tag would tell you something about location, but it's a little blurry to me.

No, I haven't started drinking.

Yet.

Sorry about the blurry part. That tag is mighty small print for my eyes too, drinking or not. Here’s a better shot, but I don’t think it provides any more info.

Legitimate Strat or not, I’m enjoying it.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Yes, I also found this under the sweatband. It supports the 1960s sale date (and manufacture date, most likely). I believe it may have been the original J E Wood Outfitters that closed in 1933 or so.
View attachment 278777



No reorder tag, unless it’s under the liner, and I don’t want to detach the liner.

Is there any definitive date range on the crest? I was under the impression that it was a late 50s - early 60s crest, but if the Canadian theory is accurate, were the same liner crests used at the same time?

Great hat by any name.
The tags behind the sweatband are often covered by the liner, and with carful manipulation you can uncover them without detaching the liner. Sometimes the tags just aren’t there.

Do you see any near microscopic print on the leather sweatband that could say “Canada?”

 

[Hurricane Jack]

I'm not 100% sold on the Canuckistan theory

Didn't know about any union tag until now. I thought the Maple leaves were one of the things Warner is wrong about? My apologies, but I still think it's a 1970's hat.

 

[Frunobulax]

Didn't know about any union tag until now. I thought the Maple leaves were one of the things Warner is wrong about? My apologies, but I still think it's a 1970's hat.

Apologize? You advanced a theory and we're kicking it around. You may be right.

Depends on which maple leaf theory. Some folks on here have pointed out Stetson used the leaf as far back as, I think, the 30s.