Ideological and Historical Roots of anti-Suit Hatred

[Dr Doran]

What about when there's a great-looking lady on your arm who appreciates the suit? Do you still get called gay?

No.

But keep in mind that the practice of calling someone gay usually does not mean that the utterer ACTUALLY thinks the target is in fact truly gay. It's just a silly term. In high school we called certain buildings that we didn't like "gay." We did not actually think the building was attracted to buildings of its own type.

It's a rather miscellaneous insult used instead of "sissy."

 

[Marc Chevalier]

What about when there's a great-looking lady on your arm who appreciates the suit? Do you still get called gay?

Well, yes...but out of envy. And that great-looking lady gets branded as a so-called "f*g hag".

 

[Dr Doran]

Yes...but out of envy. And that great-looking lady gets pegged as a so-called "f*g hag".

In my experience I have come to the conclusion that a broken beer bottle thrust in one's interlocutor's face can be helpful in many situations.

 

[Subvet642]

I'm a lawyer, so yes, I guess I fall in that category of 'weasel', according to some very narrow-minded people on here. However, they should remember that a great many of the people they categorise as such are a monumental force for good in the world. Personally, I have represented disabled people denied benefits that would help them lead lives as close to what we would consider to be normal as possible, and set up and supported charities.

I am also a corporate lawyer, working for big business. However, I don't believe that makes me a morally deficient person, or in any way worse than the next man. I believe in order, a clear definition between the right and wrong way of doing things, and I stick to those beliefs. Some people should just grow up and stop regurgitating the rubbish that stereotyping and the media promulgate.

For what it's worth, wearing a suit for me has very little to do with my job. If I worked in any type of office, or in many other jobs, I would wear a suit because (a) I like it and (b) it looks professional, meaningful and in engenders respect. The latter is most important as very few people have respect for their fellow man anymore. That is what makes a stranger on an internet forum think he can brand others 'weasels', simply based on stereotypes of the jobs they perform.

Bravo-Zulu! (Navy speak for "Job well done") :eusa_clap

I'll add two more possibilities: 1) I think that a lot of people don't want to stand out and therefore will try to blend in "with the crowd". This may have to do with an individual’s self-esteem or they may just be shy and not want to draw attention to themselves so they don't have to interact with strangers.

2) Dressing well does take time, and many people simply do not have time to fuss over what to wear, when we as a society, are so over-scheduled.

OK, I'll add one more: 3) Damned hippies! *yucky*

 

[Rachael]

one current demonstration of this discussion is the most recent series of ads by McDonalds. The supposition that any patron of a coffee shop would gladly shed all pretense of culture in favor of gossip rags, football, and tshirts if only they could is the cornerstone of this campaign. Of the root causes listed, I would put this one firmly under the catagory of assuming that dressing well means being a fraud.

Frankly, I am completely turned off by it and cannot think of why any company, even a fast food chain, would want to become the patron saint of sloth but that seems to be the goal. No matter, the coffee at the corner shop is much better and I prefer to frequent mom and pop establishments over chains.

For those fortunate to have missed it, here is a link:
http://www.slashfood.com/2008/09/25/mcdonalds-poser-coffee-commercials/

 

[ortega76]

It occurs to me that, as the US workforce has become (until recently) the most over-worked on the planet, the desire for more perceived leisure time resulted in an increased relaxation of the standards of dress. It will be interesting to see if the current financial crisis and resulting loss of employment for huge numbers of workers will have any significant effect on this.

An excellent point, carter. I know I have been with employers who have cushioned the blow of an unpopular policy with relaxed standards of dress. A mandatory full 8-hour workday on Saturday was cushioned by news that Friday would be an early day (5 hours) and that both Friday and Saturdays would be khakis and polo type days. Wow, what a tradeoff to cushion a mandatory 6 day week!

 

[Charlz]

Here in the great free state of Tennessee If a man so much as wears a tie his "friends" will inquiry if he is going to court. I often wear a tie and braces in an office where it is gently discouraged. When asked if I am "goin' ta court" I reply "yes I am, to face charges of homicide of someone who asked stupid questions."

 

[ortega76]

No.

But keep in mind that the practice of calling someone gay usually does not mean that the utterer ACTUALLY thinks the target is in fact truly gay. It's just a silly term. In high school we called certain buildings that we didn't like "gay." We did not actually think the building was attracted to buildings of its own type.

It's a rather miscellaneous insult used instead of "sissy."

Good clarification. I once went to brunch with some friends, all male and one was gay. One of the straight guys exclaimed "Wow, chocolate covered strawberries." Our gay friend could only look at him incredulously and responded "Dude, you are such a f@#".

It was one of the funniest things I ever heard. And shocking to hear such a statement uttered by one whom it is intended to slur. How pervasive is the idea of "gay" equalling "sissy" if it's used in such a manner?

 

[carter]

Not so recent. In the early days of America's Great Depression, 'daytime' brushed silk top hats, bowler hats and rolled lapels were associated with evil, greedy bankers, traders and industrialists. As a result, they came to be worn less and less often by the 'evildoers'.

Excellent point. So, is this cyclic in nature?

 

[carter]

I completely ignored that. But ... but ... lack of demand has created lack of supply, hasn't it? What men desire to buy appears swiftly under this economic regime. It's not like you need 1,000 government permits to sell suits in this society ...

True. The lessening of choices is driven by lessening of demand. And...fewer choices will result in even less demand. It's the sartorial equivalent of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If the suit and it's wearer are an endangered species, will the Fedora Lounge become known as a sartorial conservancy? Has that already occurred?

 

[ortega76]

7.) The "putting on airs" problem. Thankfully, only half of my family comes from a philistinish background to whom doing almost anything constitutes "putting on airs."

You've bought a convertible? - Oh my, you're putting on airs.
Going to college? - Who do you think you are? Are you putting on airs? Decided you don't believe in invisible beings? - Who are you to say that? You're putting on airs. NEXT THING YOU'LL SAY YOU'RE GOING TO WRITE A NOVEL.

If any member of my family said this, I'd probably resort to physical violence. I can easily see them saying this about wearing a fedora. Very sad, and grotesque. I cannot express my sympathy sufficiently to those who experience this problem.

Perhaps a less vocal version of this last one are the guys who really never learned any better. I narrowly avoided this fate, myself. I love my Dad but he grew up in a working class neighborhood in the Sixties and went on to work as a radiology tech at University of Chicago. He went from jeans to scrubs and back again every workday. I was raised in Catholic school and taught that a tie was something to tolerate and a suit was for Sunday. I had an eye for sharp suits but it wasn't until I got into the Swing Scene that I really got into suits and a more polished look. Working in a field that required a suit got me to buy more suits and each one helped me refine my knowledge and style. Now I work in an office that is truly casual in a part of town that is very anti-suit. I wear a shirt and tie everyday, a jacket most days and a suit at least twice a week. Why? Because I feel more focused and professional. I love feeling put together and polished. My manners are sharper. I notice things I don't normally. It's a good change. Like Clark Kent becoming Superman.

 

[ortega76]

Oh, and bravo on the topic, Doran. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Lou]

I think that in the eyes of my brother (the one who uses the "g"-word as soon as I pick up a collar bar) -- and who, Lou, is VERY politically liberal to the point of "hating" most or all Republicans quite indiscriminately -- rather hypocritical of him, but then again, I think he is 'just being funny' with the "g" word...

When I was reading your original post, my needle apparently skipped from your brother to Berkeley residents in general. Thus I meant to refer to what might be considered a typical Berkeley resident, not to your brother specifically (you obviously don't need me to tell you about your brother). Apologies if I was unclear.

 

[Senator Jack]

Let's face it, at least 99% of the guys out there wearing suits are squares. How can the public react but negatively? You see them on Wall Street in their bland Armani / Hugo Boss nightmares, about their necks the yellow or pink power tie, the one item that's done more to kill the suit as stepping out clothing than any other. It screams stockbroker and who, especially in these times, wants to party around them? But walk down the street in a narrow mod suit and tie, and certainly no one's going to mistake you for 'The Man'.

I've found that, generally, people do get it, though. They know a cool suit/look when they see it. They can't help but comment positively, but that ain't gonna happen when you walk around emulating Donald Trump. That look, and all those 'business rules', are what need to go away for the suit to become socially acceptable again.

Regards,

Jack

 

[Tomasso]

Fixed

But walk down the street in a narrow mod suit and tie, and certainly no one's going to mistake you for 'The Weasel'.

!!!!!!

 

[Tomasso]

Fitty gettin' his weasel on.

 

[Diamondback]

In my experience I have come to the conclusion that a broken beer bottle thrust in one's interlocutor's face can be helpful in many situations.

Add a ditto to that Bravo-Zulu, Doran. Well-thought-out thread.

But...

Might I suggest a facefull of Fox Labs or Sabre Red pepper-spray as an alternative to that beer bottle? Of course, Tasers are always fun too...lol :WeNeedA"Triggerhappy"EmoticonHere:

 

[Paisley]

I guess it's a good thing that dueling has gone out of style, too.

 

[Dr Doran]

Add a ditto to that Bravo-Zulu, Doran. Well-thought-out thread.

But...

Might I suggest a facefull of Fox Labs or Sabre Red pepper-spray as an alternative to that beer bottle? Of course, Tasers are always fun too...lol :WeNeedA"Triggerhappy"EmoticonHere:

My sociopath friend (guy in LA) once said: "Tim, don't carry a knife."

I said "Why? Knives are cool."

He said, "Because, if you use it in a fight, you'll be [thought of as] the bad guy. Carry pepper spray. Because if you use that, you are a gentle civilized guy who was only defending himself from a bad guy."

 

[Sefton]

Or maybe it's just that all the style has gone out of dueling.