I'd be veeeeeery PO'd...

[Snrbfshn]

This exceptionally nice Mallory Panama went for $105.50 last night.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1930s-Panama-Hat-Mint-in-Box_W0QQitemZ6282976090QQihZ010QQcategoryZ41393QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The problem is, it's not what it says it is. The seller stated it's a 7 1/2, a highly desirable and rare size for an almost-new vintage straw.

When I spotted the hat, I thought I could barely make out "1/4" on the tag in the pix. So I asked the seller if that was correct, and he confirmed, yes, that's what it said, and added he didn't know what it meant. But, he said, the hat box said 7 1/2.

I emailed him back more than a week before the hat's deadline, said the hat was DEFINITELY a 7 1/4, and suggested the description be revised. He ignored the request.

Then the bidding started heating up, and someone's about to be seriously fit to be tied. :rage:

I know the auction biz is "let the buyer beware," but I hate to see someone misled, then disappointed, especially when it could have been prevented.

 

[Victor]

this is confusing but the seller did clearly describe the inside circumferance as 24 inches which would make is a 7 1/2 and certainly not a 7 1/4 so who knows?

 

[Snrbfshn]

Actually, what he said was...

He measured it as "24 inches around the middle" which means he likely measured the distance around the crown, not inside of it. Make no mistake, the original Mallory size tag is still in the hat, and it says "1/4."

 

[photobyalan]

This is the main reason why my maximum bid on that hat was only $55. I really wanted it, and I considered a much higher bid but the photos did not show enough detail for me to go higher. I was not able to make out the size tag, for instance. Even at $55, I'd have been mighty unhappy to see that 1/4 on the tag when I took it out of the box.

That the seller didn't disclose the correct size after being informed of his (or her) error is reprehensible.

I should have been suspicious at the 24" measurement, anyway. Someone casually measuring the interior circumference of a size 7 1/2 (23 12") hat would find it pretty difficult to come up with a measurement that large. It is much more likely that any measuring error would be on the small side.

 

[epic610]

maybe i am a klutz...

but for me, measuring the inside circumference is tedious. i am always suspicious of sellers who email back right away with a precise number.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Measuring the inside circumference is tricky and therefore a pain in the neck, but sellers HAVE to do it -- even if the vintage hat has a size tag. Hats can shrink with time and use.

I hope that the seller was away from his/her computer, and therefore didn't see your e-mail. Because if that isn't the case, then he/she truly deserves to be punished with negative feedback, or worse. Such sellers dishonor the profession.

.

 

[Pilgrim]

but for me, measuring the inside circumference is tedious. i am always suspicious of sellers who email back right away with a precise number.

I agree! Using the cloth sewing tape I have around, I can't get a more accurate measurement than +/- about 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Hatters have accurate measuring tools, but I don't.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I "inch" the cloth tape measure around the sweatband. I hold several inches of the tape down between my thumb and index finger. Then, I move those fingers two inches further down, while still holding down the right side of the tape. It takes time to do this, but my measurements end up being accurate.

.

 

[funneman]

Forgive me if I'm pointing out the obvious, but wouldn't it be easier and a litle more accurate to tape a couple of sheets of construction paper together, roll it and place it inside the hat and then mark the spot where one end meets the other side of the paper and then measure the paper from the end to the mark?

 

[Pilgrim]

D'OH!

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Sounds good in theory, but sometimes the inside of a hat's crown can be a bit wavy, with ripples that construction paper can't follow.

.

 

[funneman]

Sounds good in theory

Yea, I tried it after I shot off my big mouth. Very clumsy, I came up with 19" for my size 7 Lee, not very accurate. Maybe stiffer paper.

If some enterprising FL'er could come up with a device that measures the size of hats he or her could sure make a pile of money off of us dummies.

But getting back to the hat at hand, is it possible that the hat in question has been stretched or resized? Which brings up a good question. If you resize a hat, should you remove the size tag?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

You don't need to remove the size tag, but you do need to inform the buyer that the hat has been resized. At the very least, you should give the inside circumference measurement, as measured by YOU.

.

 

[hatflick1]

Hat Sizing

Often I find it easier for a seller to simply measure the oval head opening front to back and side to side. I wear a 7 3/8 which usually equates to
8" x 6 1/2".
I also have been plagued recently with sellers claiming sizes they "guessed." What's particularly annoying on ebay is when sellers don't list any size at all and you have to chase them down with the 'ask seller a question' feature. Half the time the sizing tag is right on the hat!
___________________________________
Finding enlightenment...one hat at a time

 

[Pilgrim]

I also have been plagued recently with sellers claiming sizes they "guessed." What's particularly annoying on ebay is when sellers don't list any size at all and you have to chase them down with the 'ask seller a question' feature. Half the time the sizing tag is right on the hat!

I agree. Even the dimmest dufus ought to realize that no one is going to buy a hat unless they know what SIZE it is. The ignorant and uncaring attitude that some otherwise decent people exhibit when they sell on Ebay really floors me.

 

[hatflick1]

It's known as "checkin' your brains at the door."

 

[Not-Bogart13]

Measuring idea

I don't know if this would be any easier, but if you have a cloth tape measure, rather than inching it around the inside... why not slip it into the sweatband? Wouldn't the sweatband hold it in place? I know that the measurement wouldn't be perfect, but considering that other methods are slightly inaccurate...
Opinions???
NB

 

[Marc Chevalier]

That's a very good idea, Not-Bogart13! Would work with most hats. I wouldn't do it with a vintage hat that had a particularly fragile sweatband. (Flaky leather, worn-out threads, etc.)

.

 

[Cobden]

Could it be an English vs American size thing?

Although I have been chasing down one dealer on the size of an item; he hasn't let me know yet. I've sent more than one message about it, too!

 

[Snrbfshn]

Well, it turns out...

The buyer was one of our members, and he's let me know the seller acknowledged the sizing error and has rescinded the transaction.

The good news for the 7 1/4 crowd is that it will be relisted correctly. So I'm sure there will be substantial bloodletting when it again approaches deadline.