I wonder how Aero feels about this.

[Jeff M]

"The Few" offers an "Aero Leather" A2 design.
Are they paying royalties to Aero Leather, Scotland?

http://www.thefewmfg.com/details.cgi?no=AN11-004&name=THE_FEW_FLIGHT_JACKET<br>_2011_12

GoodWear Leather also offers the "Aero" contract design, (and for a much better price!) but changed the name to "Acme" as they are careful to note on their web site;

"We chose the company name Acme Leather Clothing Co. We do not have rights to the original name, and wanted to create a name that is close, and still has the spirit of the 1940s."

http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/a2_acme18775.html

Not an attorney here....aren't there international trademark/naming laws that "The Few" is breaking?

 

[ButteMT61]

More interesting is the red thread. I know about the red liners, but never saw/heard about the red stitching. Aero can worry about the name

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Some nice looking leather, but 178,500 yen converts to $2,136.645!! :eeek:

 

[HorseHide]

I don't believe that "Aero Leather Clothing Ltd" of Galashiels, Scotland owns the rights to "Aero Leather Clothing Co." of Beacon NY (long defunct contract supplier with a name that I would have assumed had entered the public domain).

 

[Edward]

Use of the "Aero" name (or any other) is a matter of trademark law. This varies internationally, but as a general rule, you have registered marks and unregistered marks. Registetred marks attract greater protection but there is a regular registration fee and typically, if memory serves, also a requirement that the mark be registered in good faith (i.e. for use rather than to block someone else from using it). Unregistered marks rely for their legal standing entirely upon "goodwill" - i.e. market awareness and associations with the marks. Aero as they exist now did not acquire the name from the original company, they just assumed use of a mark that had been defunct for many years (as they were entitled to by law - the same, I believe, happened with their use of the Highwayman brand, originally a model name for someone else (Lewis, maybe?) who had been defunct for a long time). Potentially as the current holder of the mark, the existing Aero company could try to enforce it, though given the context in which it is being used by these others, I'm not sure whether they would have much chance of success - at least in enforcing a favourable decision outside Europe. IMO they're doing the sensible thing - just getting on with producing what they do and holding their own in the market. Legal niceties aside, it seems to me that at this level of specialisation and price, your typical A2 buyer will know exactly what they are getting and paying for, and won't be buying either RM or Goodwear mistaking it for Aero of Scotland.

 

[Aerojoe]

If I'm not mistaken, original contractor Aero was a company from Beacon, NY during 1930s and 40s. Aero from Scotland it's a different business started in the 1970s. They can legally take the brand if not registered in the UK unless there was any kind of agreement between UK - USA regarding trade marks. However, I'm pretty sure there is no such extension. You need to register your TM in each country one by one. That's what big brands do. Coke is registered TM in my country, in France, Germany...

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Evidentally Aero (Scotland) does have 'rights' to the Aero name and label..since they went through this with Eastman several years ago..who began making Aero pattern A-2s and using the Aero label. After Aero's (Ken Calder's)objection..Eastman quit using those labels. Also Goodwear checked Aero (Scotland) 'rights' and decided they must use Acme labels rather than Aero. It's my understanding that Aero pays a fee periodically to keep those 'rights' instituted. If I remember correctly...some of the Asian market doesn't recognise many trademark 'rights'....or pays a fee in some cases to use(rent?) the same labels.
HD

 

[Edward]

Evidentally Aero (Scotland) does have 'rights' to the Aero name and label..since they went through this with Eastman several years ago..who began making Aero pattern A-2s and using the Aero label. After Aero's (Ken Calder's)objection..Eastman quit using those labels. Also Goodwear checked Aero (Scotland) 'rights' and decided they must use Acme labels rather than Aero. It's my understanding that Aero pays a fee periodically to keep those 'rights' instituted. If I remember correctly...some of the Asian market doesn't recognise many trademark 'rights'....or pays a fee in some cases to use(rent?) the same labels.
HD

Sounds like they've registered it as a TM in the UK then. Would make sense too given the nature and size of the market if they could enforce it against Eastman. Japan is a whole different ballgame when it comes to trademarks, and most likely Aero aren't registered there.

 

[Aerojoe]

Sounds like they've registered it as a TM in the UK then. Would make sense too given the nature and size of the market if they could enforce it against Eastman.

Absolutely. Aero can claim rights to ELC because both business are in the UK. What I think is that Aero registered a TM in the USA too, since they have a branch or a retailer in the States. The company fulll name is "Aero Leather Clothing Ltd";

http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/terms.php

but in their military labels they put "Aero Leather Clo Co. Beacon NY".

Goodwear on the other hand has to rename their Aero replicas as "Acme" because;

We have chosen the name "Acme Leather" as we don't own the rights to Aero, and it has a vintage sound to it, while being close to Aero.

http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/a2_acme16160.html

Therefore, it is probably that the current Aero company registered a TM in the USA. You can buy all TM and patents of a dead business. Chinese do this all over the world.

 

[Davy Crockett]

I believe Aero did aquire the use of the Aero Beacon name legally, and from talking to Will at Aero many companies ask if they can use the Aero name (one being Morgan cars), Will told me that if they ask nicely he usually has no objections, however if people just use it without consent to capitalise on the name that is a different matter, I think Will does not like getting into long protracted legal battles(like most of us!) and he is a very reasonable man!

D

 

[SGB]

The Few uses the Aero name under special agreement with Aero of Scotland.

SGB

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I believe Aero did aquire the use of the Aero Beacon name legally, and from talking to Will at Aero many companies ask if they can use the Aero name (one being Morgan cars), Will told me that if they ask nicely he usually has no objections, however if people just use it without consent to capitalise on the name that is a different matter, I think Will does not like getting into long protracted legal battles(like most of us!) and he is a very reasonable man!

D

I agree.

HD

 

[Red Baron]

Asian company ripping off a western product without licensing the rights? I have never heard of that happening before stop the presses

 

[Red Baron]

oh guess i should have read on. The Few has licensing. good. Now if the company was from China then I would be even less surprised if they did not license properly or at all. The chinese companies do that a lot. Not so much Japanese. Japan is much better because many of the corporations are secretly joint owned by western investors who for some reason prefer to remain anonymous. Taiwan has made an industry out of stealing products. companies have high rise buildings called beehives or something like that with students right out of college who just live there eat there and work 16 hour days. much of western software is stolen by these beehive things. I know two friends who had companies destroyed by this buisness practice of the Taiwanese. very cutthroat

 

[Jeff M]

Absolutely. Aero can claim rights to ELC because both business are in the UK. What I think is that Aero registered a TM in the USA too, since they have a branch or a retailer in the States. The company fulll name is "Aero Leather Clothing Ltd";

http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/terms.php

but in their military labels they put "Aero Leather Clo Co. Beacon NY".

...

Looks like the exact same wording "The Few" is using on their labels.

 

[Aerojoe]

Looks like the exact same wording "The Few" is using on their labels.

Yest it is the same Aero probably didn't register any TM in Japan [huh]

 

[rocketeer]

I have to admit I have not seen every contract from every maker of A2's, but I have never seen one with the bottom of the pocket stitching go from vertical to horizontal with a sharp corner like that jacket in the first post. They have usually been a small curve or a cropped corner at 45º.
J

 

[Jeff M]

I have to admit I have not seen every contract from every maker of A2's, but I have never seen one with the bottom of the pocket stitching go from vertical to horizontal with a sharp corner like that jacket in the first post. They have usually been a small curve or a cropped corner at 45º.
J

To say nothing of using red thread. :eeek:

 

[Edward]

Absolutely. Aero can claim rights to ELC because both business are in the UK. What I think is that Aero registered a TM in the USA too, since they have a branch or a retailer in the States. The company fulll name is "Aero Leather Clothing Ltd";

http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/terms.php

but in their military labels they put "Aero Leather Clo Co. Beacon NY".

Goodwear on the other hand has to rename their Aero replicas as "Acme" because;



Therefore, it is probably that the current Aero company registered a TM in the USA. You can buy all TM and patents of a dead business. Chinese do this all over the world.

Or if it's completely fallen into disuse, it's very easy just to take it and run with it. "Mosrite of California" guitars, for example, are made in Japan by a company with no connection to the original company, but they acquired the rights perfectly legally. Japanese law is somewhat more liberal on the use of marks that have not been used for a long time, if memory serves.

I believe Aero did aquire the use of the Aero Beacon name legally, and from talking to Will at Aero many companies ask if they can use the Aero name (one being Morgan cars), Will told me that if they ask nicely he usually has no objections, however if people just use it without consent to capitalise on the name that is a different matter, I think Will does not like getting into long protracted legal battles(like most of us!) and he is a very reasonable man!

D

If it's registered as a TM, at least in the UK, that means it has been registered for use with certain products. If the item in question falls outside of their product grouping and is unlikely to cause buyer confusion, they have no say in it; if, on the other hand, the buyer might be confused into thinking it was Aero Scotland behind the product, then they have the right to prevent such use. This would be behind the reason the Few need a licence to use the name. Morgan should have no issue here, unless Aero's market are likely to be confused into thinking Aero had diversified into niche sports cars..... though I suppose if it applied to leather seats in said cars, I could see a reasonable argument for a link.

 

[Jeff M]

Seems to me if "The Few" is marketing and selling an "Aero Leather Clo. Company" A2 jacket their product could be confused with Aero Scotland's A2's by less well informed buyers. Which I'll venture to say is a vast majority of the population who don't visit forums like this one.
It is truly a "global economy" these days.
Just look at the number of fake "Brand Name" items sold on eBay....bogus "vintage" jackets, etc.

I understand the problem with trademark rights in China...but it surprises me find this problem with Japan.