I remember when.....

[LizzieMaine]

My favorite Durocher story was the time Carl Furillo went into the dugout to get him after being brushed back at the plate. He got Durocher in a headlock and tried to break his neck -- Leo's cap fell off and the top of his bald head turned a livid purple, inspiring a number of witty comments from onlookers.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I think it's interesting to consider what star players made compared to run-of-the-mill players. Much was made of Babe Ruth's $80,000 salary in 1930 -- "think of it, he made more than Hoover! Yeah, well, he had a better year than Hoover." But he was the biggest star and the biggest drawing card in the game -- he made what he was worth. But while he was making that haul, a bottom-of-the-dugout Yankee like Bubbles Hargraves or Yats Weustling was making maybe $2000 a year, which was a good wage for a journeyman plumber or a factory foreman. These players were, in their own way, working stiffs as much as the people paying to see them, and it induced a certain sense of "we're all in this together" among those who played and those who watched.

Much is made about the MLBPA and the end of the reserve clause creating the environment where guys can earn tens of millions of dollars per year, but one of the biggest impacts has been on the minimum ML salary, which is around $450,000 these days. There's still a great disparity between the superstars and the scrubs, but the scrubs are no longer everyday working-class joes.

Of course, that's not the case for minor league players, most of whom earn less than $50,000, about half less than $15,000. Of course most get a signing bonus, but it's not in the millions , and as Jim Bouton (who in 1969 was earning half of what Cobb made in 1911) pointed out in Ball Four; "the minor leagues are all very minor."

But again, I wouldn't mind seeing the players express humility instead of the swaggering hubris we get now. There are players today who do show this attitude -- I've always admired Tim Wakefield for the way he carried himself and the way he made, and still makes, himself part of New England. It's just that there aren't enough of them, and I think that's part of what's killing the game.

I agree. I'm glad you're making what you can, but you don't have to be a jerk about it. I'll have to say though, most professional ball players I've known have been pretty regular guys. Mostly.

 

[Harp]

My favorite Durocher story was the time Carl Furillo went into the dugout to get him after being brushed back at the plate. He got Durocher in a headlock and tried to break his neck --

Leo had a strained association with Ernie Banks, whom was nearing the end of his playing career during Durocher's tenure.
I once asked Ernie-my boyhood idol-"Isn't it great that the Sox won the series?"
And he looked at me and said, What's so great about it?" And he was serious.
...then we both agreed that the Cubbies would take the series next year.
---when Hell freezes over.

 

[HudsonHawk]

HudsonHawk, your name on this thread, brings back some wonderful memories. I know that HudsonHawk was a movie character, although I really can't remember ever seeing the film, it's the name Hudson that inspires the reminisce.

At the end of WW2, my father, who could speak the four languages that the Nuremburg trials were held in, befriended an American officer, who was also recruited as translater for the said trials. That officer's name just doesn't come to mind, but Dad told me, much later, that the officer just wanted to get away from war torn Europe, and to that end, sold my Dad his car for a pittance . It was a Hudson, can't really remember the model, but it was something like a 1940 sedan.

For it's day, that car went like the wind. We kept it, up until the mid 1950's. Mother nearly passed out one time, when Dad overtook three cars at once. Remember, we drive on the left, and this was a left hand drive, so mother had a good vision of the cars coming the other way. How I wish that car went into storage.

I don't know much about the old Hudson cars, but I'm glad the name conjures up fond memories for you. Hudson is my name, and I've often thought about getting my dad an old Hudson from the year he was born. But they're hard to find. Also, he says his favorite car he ever owned was his 1960 Chevrolet, that looked something like this:




Of course, that's the car that nabbed Mom, so I'm sure it has a specialness all its own.

 

[Tomasso]

Big-time college sports are the biggest fraud going, and have been for the past fifty years, at least.

Yeah, more like a century. College football became such a dirty business in the 20s and 30s that many schools began to deemphasize football rather than try to compete with the football factories that were springing up all over America.

These were mostly small to mid size schools but then in 1939 the University of Chicago shocked the football world by not just deemphasizing football but abolishing it altogether. Chicago had been a founding member of the Big Ten and was led by the game's all time winningest coach, Amos Alonzo Stagg. They'd won national championships and had produced dozens of All Americans, including the very first Heisman Trophy winner.

Within the next decade or so many other schools deemphasized their programs culminating with the entire Ivy League, which had been a power in the early days of the game. None of this had any impact on big time college football as the factories schools just got bigger and bigger.

 

[fashion frank]

I don't know much about the old Hudson cars, but I'm glad the name conjures up fond memories for you. Hudson is my name, and I've often thought about getting my dad an old Hudson from the year he was born. But they're hard to find. Also, he says his favorite car he ever owned was his 1960 Chevrolet, that looked something like this:

View attachment 11952
That picture reminds me of a blue and white 1959 chevy Bel Air that I once owned that when looking at the rear end of the car it looked like a womans eyebrow's .
I also had a 1952 or 3 Hudson Hornet Sedan .
It had a huge big block 6 cyl. with twin carbs .
It was so long and big that when you sat in the back seat your voice would revererate in the car I'm not kidding.
It also had a big prisim on the top of the dashboard because the split windsheild came so far forward that you could not see the traffic light and you would have to turn that thing in the direction of the light and it would "glow" the color of the light .

Also the radio aerial was mounted outside right between the split windsheild at the top of the roof but inside you had a knob that you would turn and it would make the antenna "turn " like a bugs antenna would do it was way cool.
They had different models all named after different bugs.

If you have ever watched american pickers on the History Channel the car that thay have in front of their shop is the Hornet.

I also owned a 1953 Chevy Bel Air with the 3 speed on the column and my best car was a 1959 Desoto Fire Dome with a Hemi Wedge motor, that car could blow off new corvettes when I had it tuned up just right .

All the Best ,Fashion Frank

 

[Stearmen]

Big-time college sports are the biggest fraud going, and have been for the past fifty years, at least. Listen to some of the big-time college athletes giving interviews, sounding like they can barely speak English, and see just how "educated" they are.

I like the idea that they're going to be able to form a union at Northwestern. They're professionals, and it's high time the fraudulent illusion of "amateurism" was stripped away and they got a due share of the profits they're bringing into the schools. Even better, turn college sports into a professional minor-league development program for the major leagues, and leave schools to actual education.

Until recently. I did not know that Collage athletes have no rights to their name. Even worse, if they are permanently injured, they may not even get their medical bills payed. Since, a lot of them, as you point out, don't even have an education to fall back on, they are SOL. It is a disgrace!

 

[HudsonHawk]

Until recently. I did not know that Collage athletes have no rights to their name. Even worse, if they are permanently injured, they may not even get their medical bills payed. Since, a lot of them, as you point out, don't even have an education to fall back on, they are SOL. It is a disgrace!

Many are not even getting free schooling. In the big revenue sports, football and basketball, most are on full scholarship, but not so much in other sports.

 

[Tomasso]

Many are not even getting free schooling. In the big revenue sports, football and basketball, most are on full scholarship, but not so much in other sports.

That's in large part the result of Title IX.

 

[HudsonHawk]

That's in large part the result of Title IX.

It's the result of football getting 85 scholarships, five times as many as the next closest sport (hockey gets 18, for the schools that play hockey).

 

[Tomasso]

It's the result of football getting 85 scholarships, five times as many as the next closest sport (hockey gets 18, for the schools that play hockey).

You appear to be unfamiliar with the impact that Title IX has had on intercollegiate athletics, particularly in regards to men's teams. Google is your friend.

 

[HudsonHawk]

You appear to be unfamiliar with the impact that Title IX has had on intercollegiate athletics, particularly in regards to men's teams. Google is your friend.

I'm intimately familiar with it. The fact that women get scholarships too does not change the fact that the men give so many to football players.

 

[sheeplady]

Many are not even getting free schooling. In the big revenue sports, football and basketball, most are on full scholarship, but not so much in other sports.

Even then, there are many athletes from disadvantaged background who go hungry because they don't have enough money for food when the dining halls are closed, a place to stay when the dorms close, etc. A full scholarship doesn't put food on your table 3x365 or a roof over your head. Our local university provides a food pantry to students (and staff) and they have many athletes that use it. Scholarship athletes can't go out and get a part-time job for food money.

That's in large part the result of Title IX.

Heaven forbid schools invest in women as well. Schools could very well provide scholarships for every athlete, but female teams are not nearly as revenue raising, so why provide scholarships for them? With the money made off of the big sports (men's basketball and football), the schools could very well provide scholarships for all players, but that would cut into their profit from the big sports.

Please don't tell me you support doing away with Title IX purely so you can give scholarships to every male athlete, while not providing scholarships to female athletes?

 

[HudsonHawk]

With the money made off of the big sports (men's basketball and football), the schools could very well provide scholarships for all players, but that would cut into their profit from the big sports.

No they can't. It isn't about not having enough funding, it's about having to distribute it to men's and women's sports equitably. Many schools do away with men's programs, not because they can't afford them, but because they don't have enough women in sports to give a similar number.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The real question isn't the number of sports scholarships given out, or to whom they are given. The real question is whether colleges are in the business of education or the business of sports entertainment. Those that are obviously in the latter should be treated exactly the same way that other commercial sports enterprises are treated -- taxed, regulated, and subject to labor law when it comes to those who perform under their banner.

"We can't afford both a college and a football stadium. We start tearing down the college tomorrow."
-- Groucho Marx as Professor Quincy Adams Wagstaff, "Horsefeathers."

 

[HudsonHawk]

The real question isn't the number of sports scholarships given out, or to whom they are given. The real question is whether colleges are in the business of education or the business of sports entertainment. Those that are obviously in the latter should be treated exactly the same way that other commercial sports enterprises are treated -- taxed, regulated, and subject to labor law when it comes to those who perform under their banner.

"We can't afford both a college and a football stadium. We start tearing down the college tomorrow."
-- Groucho Marx as Professor Quincy Adams Wagstaff, "Horsefeathers."

Exactly. This isn't about Title IX, it's about worshipping at the football alter. Not that college sports don't gave their place, but it's long since moved from being about students from School X competing against students from School Y. There's a lot of money at stake.

 

[sheeplady]

There are several large schools who do not give athletic scholarships and do not recruit athletes. I chose an undergraduate school who did exactly that- all scholarships were need based only. Having been at a number of institutions in my life, I've seen the ugly parts of having a "near-pro" team.

No they can't. It isn't about not having enough funding, it's about having to distribute it to men's and women's sports equitably. Many schools do away with men's programs, not because they can't afford them, but because they don't have enough women in sports to give a similar number.

Basically you are restating my point- I don't understand where we disagree.

 

[Tomasso]

The fact that women get scholarships too does not change the fact that the men give so many to football players.

Roster size is dictated by the personnel requirements of the particular sport. Football requires more players to field a team than the other sports. Therefore more scholarships are needed.

 

[Tomasso]

There's a lot of money at stake.

And it goes far beyond television revenue, gate receipts and team merchandise sales.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/co...cord-740-million-almost-doubles-longhorns.ece

 

[Tomasso]

Please don't tell me you support doing away with Title IX purely so you can give scholarships to every male athlete, while not providing scholarships to female athletes?

Is this really a question?