I NEED SUGGESTIONS FOR HAT BOX FEET...

[Magus]

Well all I am a few short steps away from a finished hatbox prototype (unstained) but this is kicking my tail. I figure that it should have feet...but can't find something proper. All of the fittings on the box are brass.

I thought about brass enclosed "acorn" cap nuts, but can't find any that really would be tall enough in stores and don't want to wait for online ones (or pay the cost) of delivery.

I also could fabricate a stacked leather and brass one...but that would add LOTS of work ...for just feet. Plus the weight of this box is already...."stout" so I am trying to be aware of that too

I considered the rubber door stopper ends...but that isnt' in the theme (and look a bit "cheap"

So...


HELP!

M

 

[Cabinetman]

Well, I suppose I always think of wood first. But I can't think of a design that would not add quite a bit of time to your project, as it seems you want to avoid that. One tip, though: close to the end is not a time to skimp or rush.

Do you intend for these boxes to be stackable?

A single display piece in one's living room or office?

You may have addressed that already. I haven't been following your project too closely. Sorry if that's repetition.

 

[Magus]

The current one is really more of a travel case. I lined it with 1/8" melamine(sp)..which added to the weight but has made it very ridgid. I have barstock brass that I could cut and shape or layer with leather...but man that going to be a TON of work.

I had considered wood nobs, but am not sure that it will be sturdy enough.

M

 

[Razzman]

Hat Box Feet

Have you considered a wooden dowel? Relatively inexpensive. It would have to be a larger diameter, say one inch or larger. The dowel is probably 3 feet long and you could cut the pieces to what ever width you desire. The pieces can then be finished and stained to match the box. If you cut a piece say, 1/2 long with a diameter of 1 inch. It would keep the box up off the floor or a shelf. Just a thought.

 

[Pilgrim]

How about metal feet like those found on the bottom of old-style hardshell guitar cases? You can get them from G&G Quality Cases in California. They come with split rivet feet, so you'll need a way to spread and clinch the side of the shaft.

They don't list these parts on their website, but they were kind enough to sell me some to repair an old Univox case. such feet are probably available from case or luggage makers.

OR - check ACE Hardware for the acorn nuts. You might be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Cabinetman]

The current one is really more of a travel case. I lined it with 1/8" melamine(sp)..which added to the weight but has made it very ridgid.

I can't think of anything better, at the moment. You can get an 1/8" birch plywood (sometimes called "bending birch") which probably would be lighter than the melamine faced material or 1/8" hardboard (commonly called masonite).

I have barstock brass that I could cut and shape or layer with leather...but man that going to be a TON of work.

It's only time. Sure, time is money, but you will do well to not rush the end of the project.

I had considered wood nobs, but am not sure that it will be sturdy enough.

The sturdiness would be determined by your box sides/bottom and how you fasten the knobs to the box. The knob, itself, would be fine.

M

So, nothing really decorative then? Just something to hold the bottom off the ________________ (whatever surface on which it sits)?

 

[Cabinetman]

Furture box sides

Also available for your future boxes is thick veneer sheets. They are available in all wood or with a thick paper backing. Some really nice stuff.

Also, the Shaker box kits might be worth looking into as well.

 

[Matt Deckard]

You could always use fur felt pads...

 

[Magus]

Thanks all for the thoughts. I am off to the store now...with your suggestions in mind.

Cabinetman, would you please send a link to the veneer sheets that you are talking about? Remember the goal is strength to weight for lining the leather.

Thanks all...I do apreciate it.

M

 

[Cabinetman]

What veneers I do buy I get from my local vendor. I believe www.rockler.com has veneer, but I don't know about grade. You could also check your big box stores around - Lowe's, Home Depot, Menard's. I know I have seen it in retail outlets like that before, although I've not purchased any. A Google, or other search engine, search may prove beneficial. For reference, what I was talking about above, I believe, has a 20 mil paper back. The all-wood is about 1/16" thick overall, I think.

For the 1/8" birch, or bending birch, check with your local lumberyard. They chould be able to get you a sheet. In this case, I don't think the big box would be much help. And I still think this is lighter in weight than masonite.

Strength to weight ratio...How strong do you need it? For a travel box, does it need to stand up to baggage handlers at the airport?

And what shape is your box? The thinner stock should be very good for a round or oval box, and take the leather fine, I would think. The 1/8" could be used for other shapes. Another thought is laminating veneer, but very much and you're back to your 1/8" material.

 

[feltfan]

I think the right rubber feet could be both visually
attractive and practical. Don't rule 'em out.

 

[Pilgrim]

Feltfan is on the right track, if you have a wood layer on the bottom of that case. Rubber feet mounted with the right screws would be prefect.

 

[Magus]

Well gents and ladies.

I went with a brass plated acorn cap nut as found on this link:

http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/cnbb.cfm

They look really great on it and fit the skyscraper theme as well. I would prefer solid brass but couldn't find them in town and wanted to move on with the project and with a 60 hour+ work week finding time to finish the prototype has been thin and the feet needed placment before the next step. Since they screw on replacing them with solid brass at a future point will be simple. Likewise the design of the box allows adjustments to the feet beyond that as well (rubber etc.) as one might choose.

Thanks for the Trunk referbishing idea...I honestly had not thought of that area as a resource.

We should have a enveiling soon. (sorry for the wait all...and making the next ones wil not be anywhere near as time consuming as I know where I am going now....I THINK! lol)

M

 

[Magus]

Great questions you have there CAB...look for my answeres in Red Thanks for the ideas...perhaps we should talk on the phone?

M

What veneers I do buy I get from my local vendor. I believe www.rockler.com has veneer, but I don't know about grade. You could also check your big box stores around - Lowe's, Home Depot, Menard's. I know I have seen it in retail outlets like that before, although I've not purchased any. A Google, or other search engine, search may prove beneficial. For reference, what I was talking about above, I believe, has a 20 mil paper back. The all-wood is about 1/16" thick overall, I think.

I am not really looking for beauty in the veneer as it is covered. What I need is a high strength/rigidity to weight ratio. I am even kicking around the idea of compressed styrophome or 20gu aluminum


For the 1/8" birch, or bending birch, check with your local lumberyard. They chould be able to get you a sheet. In this case, I don't think the big box would be much help. And I still think this is lighter in weight than masonite.

Masonite being Melimene? Would the birch have a warping problem down the road? Is it ply or solid?

Strength to weight ratio...How strong do you need it? For a travel box, does it need to stand up to baggage handlers at the airport?

Well...you "could" check this as I believe it would withstand the stress, but with the ornate tooling I wouldn't. Plus its able to fit in an overhead bin.

And what shape is your box? The thinner stock should be very good for a round or oval box, and take the leather fine, I would think. The 1/8" could be used for other shapes. Another thought is laminating veneer, but very much and you're back to your 1/8" material.

The current on is hexagonal...With an oval I planned on scoring/cutting bend relief points to get the backing to accept the shape

 

[Cabinetman]

Mornin', Magus,

Melamine is merely the low pressure laminate that is attached to a substrate - a better, more durable finish than paint, but not as thick as laminate on a countertop (Formica and others). Many times the substrate is particleboard (related topic: my stomach is churning typing this). It could also be MDF, and possibly hardboard, but particleboard and MDF are primarily used since they are very smooth. It is common to call the entire thickness melamine. That is, you wouldn't order a melamine-face on 1/2" thick particleboard. You'd simply order 1/2" melamine. Then you might get a choice of substrate, depending on what your supplier stocks or can get (another related note as my stomach churns - I don't use this material in any of my work).

I hadn't heard of 1/8" before. 1/4", yes, but not 1/8". I wondered if you were using Masonite instead. Masonite is actually a brand name, but has been used throughout the years as meaning any thinly-pressed panel with a plasticky coating on one or both sides - it's like heavy, high gloss paint, but "seemingly" very durable. (kind of like calling all facial tissue Kleenex) Some people may call it shower panel (which is another product), and it has been used to line showers and tub stalls, but it fails pretty quickly in that environment. For the life of me, I can't think what the generic name of it is. Anyway, the similarity to melamine exists in that they are both white in most instances (other colors are available), and thin, on top of another material - the substrate.

The thinner substrates (1/8") are often tempered hardboard (this also known as Masonite). It is very hard, smooth, and rigid. And heavy. It makes a lot of dust when cut (just like MDF and particle board) as it is a pressed panel of fibers. It's also very cheap, as panel products go. I don't know of it in any other color than its natural, unadultered brown. It is very smooth.

I understand the structure of your box isn't seen. In that vein, yes, you would be "wasting" the beauty of the fine veneer. When I mentioned grade, though, I just meant thickness and type, not necessarily appearance. Although, just the nature of it basically dictates it's going to look great. If I get a minute (or make a minute), I'll see what can be done with it. I have a little bit left from a couple jobs ago.

The birch is a plywood. I don't know how many plys, though. Warping I don't think would be any more a problem than any other wood product you might use. Just laying flat over time, maybe so, or certainly standing on edge. But assembled with opposing angles and a bottom and such, I would not be worried about it.

(By the way, how are you actually building this? How is it held together?)

For round and oval boxes, I think you would not need to score. Think of the Shaker boxes again - they are just thin laminations. Without buying those kits, this is where I think the veneer sheets would come in very handy.

Aluminum...hmmm. Maybe, so. And this could be done very quickly and in almost any shape. Do you have any contractor friends? A break and some shears would make quick work of bending, and cutting and shaping parts. I'm not sure how you'd hold it together, though. I am sure the adhesive exists, though.

Didn't mean to write a dissertation, here. We could talk sometime, sure. I'll send you a PM with my telephone number.

C

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Good luck in your endeavours, and be sure to show us the result.

From the first time I saw this thread, though, I've had "Happy Feet" or, in this case, "Hatbox Feet" playing in my head. lol

 

[Siirous]

I hadn't heard of 1/8" before. 1/4", yes, but not 1/8". I wondered if you were using Masonite instead. Masonite is actually a brand name, but has been used throughout the years as meaning any thinly-pressed panel with a plasticky coating on one or both sides - it's like heavy, high gloss paint, but "seemingly" very durable. (kind of like calling all facial tissue Kleenex) Some people may call it shower panel (which is another product), and it has been used to line showers and tub stalls, but it fails pretty quickly in that environment. For the life of me, I can't think what the generic name of it is. Anyway, the similarity to melamine exists in that they are both white in most instances (other colors are available), and thin, on top of another material - the substrate.

If we're thinking the same thing here, it's called tileboard commonly. The plastic coating comes just plain, and with a tile pattern on it. I cringe everytime somebody buys the tile pattern instead of of durarock/tile job in their shower.

 

[Cabinetman]

If we're thinking the same thing here, it's called tileboard commonly. The plastic coating comes just plain, and with a tile pattern on it. I cringe everytime somebody buys the tile pattern instead of of durarock/tile job in their shower.

Yes, and no. I know what you're talking about with the tileboard, but I just can't seem to recall the actual name of the product. Then again, different locales will call it different names, I suppose.

Do you work in a lumberyard per chance? I worked in our local yard for about 13 months several years ago.

 

[Siirous]

I work in the lumber department of the big orange box, but most of my knowledge comes from working around my father, who built furniture as a hobby.

 

[Magus]

The specs...

Well folks....I have "hidden" the design after the suggestions concerning the "Stratoliner"(...all great mind you and appreciated...) but I realized that it might not be workable without building major forms...which I still have a mind to do!)


Soooooooo.....here are the specs.

I went to design #2. I have not shown it at all because I really know where it is I want to go with it...and if folks like it...great...if not...great...because I like it! lol Also Some folks have a hard time seeing where you are going and it just looks like a pile of....leather....if you show it too early.

With that said I won't "hide" anything regarding the materials as I have tried to use what I thought to be the proper "stuff". As I said its a prototype and I can and might switch liner material on the next one. The outside is 8oz leather I didn't use "perfect" premium grade tooling leather for this one as I wanted a traveled look though following ones will be done with very clear leather, the corners are internally reinforced, bonded, and hand stitched with 4oz. waxed thread. The handle is hand formed bonded and stitched with 3 layers of 8-10 oz leather and attached with solid brass D rings. The buckles are also solid brass and large enough to be sturdy and easy for "man hands" to manipulate. The feet are 1/4-20 acorn cap nuts with plated brass as that was all I could get here and as I said before that is changeable with a bit of effort. The exterior is currently unfinished but I have both light and medium brown stains either of which will look great on this project. After staining I will finish it with a latex based leather finish in matted or gloss (if anyone takes a liking to the item) it is very durable water resistant and can be polished and or recoated later in life as needed. The interior bottom and sides are lined with 1/8 particleboard (hold that churning stomach Cabinetman!lol) with Melamine facing the "outside" of the leather. I am thinking that with 1/8 thick stained and treated leather protecting it should hold up well. But that is changeable in the future models....thus the thread.

The top is tooled heavily with a girder structure framing the top and the Golden era Manhattan skyline centered in the distance across the middle. There is room below or above should an owner wish an initial or signature tooled (though I wouldn't suggest that placement) The sides are untooled so as not to have a gaudy item and that would be a fine place to put initials if you wanted (though finding another like it is....highly unlikely...even if/when I build more...because of the nature of hand made leather items each will be slightly different...no machine work used) The buckle attachment and strap are cut , stitched and tooled as an outline of the Chrysler building....the stitching on the lower level and tooling on the upper form the windows.

Sometime today I am cutting, forming the sides, and bonding the corners of the top...possibly stitching...so I should be able to post pictures fairly soon. And after reading all that up there....Dang...I should charge like $10,000 for this thing! lol

Take care on this Family weekend all,

M