Hunting Hitler on the History Channel

[MisterCairo]

They're all theories I didn't mean to start such a "Fuhrer" over this

Oh my god, that's brilliant.

Why do I think you started this thread because you'd known how it'd play out so you could use that?!

 

[filfoster]

The highest NAZI to evade capture was, Joseph Mengele. He died in 1979 in Bertioga , Sao Paulo, Brazil. Before you say ahha, proof that NAZI's evaded detection, the Israeli Mossad was always just one step behind him! He lived his years always looking over his shoulder! If Hitler had escaped, they would have known where he was!

I try not to come back to this thread but...
The fate of D.Ing. SS General Hans Kammler, in charge of the Reich's 'wonder weapons' programs by the end of the war, mysteriously disappeared, along with some of his toys.
I'd nominate him as the most important guy who might have gotten away. Concede that Mengele is the biggest fish whose skedaddle was documented.

 

[Stearmen]

I try not to come back to this thread but...
The fate of D.Ing. SS General Hans Kammler, in charge of the Reich's 'wonder weapons' programs by the end of the war, mysteriously disappeared, along with some of his toys.
I'd nominate him as the most important guy who might have gotten away. Concede that Mengele is the biggest fish whose skedaddle was documented.

Now Kammler would make a far better docudrama then Hitler! Did he commit suicide in Czechoslovakia, was he killed running from the advancing Americans, did the Soviets capture him, did he make it to South America, or was the OSS officer, Donald W. Richardson right, Kammler was brought to the U.S. as part of Operation Paperclip, and subsequently committed suicide in a prison cell? I sure don't know.

 

[filfoster]

I'm going to do some more digging. Kammler is certainly one of the most intriguing major figures who has escaped 'popular' histories. Very few photos of him and not a lot of written accounts either.
I didn't have many details of the Paperclip theory until you supplied that OSS officer name. That would be my best guess. Anyone as slick as Kammler, who survived the machinations of a murderous peer group to end up running the most sensitive operations of the Reich at war's end, would have been slick enough to negotiate something for himself. The OSS would have been a logical and seemingly willing accomplice in his post-war 'arrangements'.
Funny if the 'Hunting Hitler Hardy Boys' find something on him.

 

[filfoster]

Well, I am impressed with the Wikipedia bio of Kammler. I had seen this last year and it was anemic compared to now. There is quite a bit there. My previous reading about him had come from Nick Cook's Zero Point book and Joseph Farrell's weird science tomes.

This bio only increases the curiosity about this enigmatic monster.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...S-hands-Hitlers-secret-weapons-programme.html

 

[filfoster]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...S-hands-Hitlers-secret-weapons-programme.html

Thanks! Great article! Wouldn't we all like to know the real scoop on all this? Smoke and mirrors. The world is full of 'grassy knolls' and 'Feodor Kuzmich's'

 

[the hairy bloke]

Can I add, for our American friends that in Britain the Daily Mail is noted for its historical articals, but not known as a journal of record.

I would not out too much trust in what is seen as a British version of Fox News.

 

[filfoster]

QUOTE="the hairy bloke, post: 2039828, member: 14220"]Can I add, for our American friends that in Britain the Daily Mail is noted for its historical articals, but not known as a journal of record.

I would not out too much trust in what is seen as a British version of Fox News.[/QUOTE]


Thanks! As my avatar shows, I'm the stereotype Fox News viewer, so I understand the nuance. I suspect Fox 'fact checks' better than its critics allow. Our Drudge Report online news site (also judged 'dodgy' I suspect by many), frequently links to Mirror articles and I understand the Mirror is a variety of 'tabloid', like our New York Post, but some of its articles, like this one, are fun and taken with a grain of salt, informative.
Regrettably, it's unlikely we'll ever know the truth of what happened to so many famous and infamous people who disappeared without clear proof of the circumstances. History is riddled with these puzzles. I'm content AH and his gun moll Little Eva are not among the real puzzles.
'Thanks' to the OP for starting this thread although it accumulated a few acrimonious barnacles on its voyage.

It's my view that the staged or survived death and incognito life after, is one of the rarest and most difficult things to pull off. Most fail to satisfy historians: Marshal Ney, Elvis, John Wilkes Booth, Anastasia, Jesse James, Randy Quaid -the list goes on. The Feodor Kuzmich story, very bizarre, is one that just may be true. That one may eventually be proven if the DNA testing on his remains ever goes forward. That mystery is particularly timely with the advent of the wonderful History Channel mini-series 'War and Peace' now on our cable TV.

This thread has wandered and I half-heartedly apologize.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Can I add, for our American friends that in Britain the Daily Mail is noted for its historical articals, but not known as a journal of record.

I would not out too much trust in what is seen as a British version of Fox News.

The Daily Mail also has a somewhat anti-American bias which shows in their human interest stories, which even though many of them are sourced from the US media, they are nonetheless chosen to reinforce negative American stereotypes.

 

[the hairy bloke]

I think it would be safe to suggest that most of those who have famously gone missing are now dead.

Hitler, for instance, would be over a hundred. And he didn't look to well in that photo of him meeting members of SS Hitlerjungend.

 

[the hairy bloke]

Oh, and a responce to V C: funnily enough we view Fox News as somewhat anti-British forvery much the same reasons.

 

[filfoster]

I think it would be safe to suggest that most of those who have famously gone missing are now dead.

Hitler, for instance, would be over a hundred. And he didn't look to well in that photo of him meeting members of SS Hitlerjungend.

No, no more birthdays for Der Fuhrer. There is another purported 'last photo' which shows him looking very old. It seems apparent that his mental and physical condition by April, 1945 made any escape adventure, rat-running tunnels under Berlin, (no mention of the flooding of a large portion of those subways), scrambling to the waiting Condor; confining himself and Eva in a U-boat, very unlikely, even if he'd wanted to.
There's no credible reporting by anyone around him that he meant other than what he said: that he wanted to die by his own hand, in his capital: a Wagnerian ending in flames. I wish the flames to continue for him a good long time.

 

[MisterCairo]

I think it would be safe to suggest that most of those who have famously gone missing are now dead.

Hitler, for instance, would be over a hundred. And he didn't look to well in that photo of him meeting members of SS Hitlerjungend.

He looked even worse after shooting himself in the head and then being burned with fuel!

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

I kind of hit on your comment about someone thinking Himmler was a great Dad. I read Crista Schroeder's book: "HE WAS MY CHIEF: The Memoirs of Adolf Hitler's Secretary". She thought he as a great guy, he usually had lunch with the secretaries, not the big wigs when traveling. If memory serves, Hitler introduced her to her husband (who didn't live out the war). On the other hand, she apparently wasn't there to take notes when old Adolph decided on the Final Solution etc. I'm betting more of these people were a bit over two faced.

I don't think the women was evil, but liking your kids just means you're a NICE genocidal maniac. Not exactly a giant tribute....

Later

 

[filfoster]

Hitler famously loved his Alsation dog, Blondi. Hell's pet policy is presently unknown.

 

[MisterCairo]

Hitler famously loved his Alsation dog, Blondi. Hell's pet policy is presently unknown.

Hell hounds, of course...

 

[Tiki Tom]

Based on Filfoster's recommendation and on interesting on-line reviews, I have ordered a copy of Nick Cook's Search for Zero Point Energy book. Normally I shy away from Nazi conspiracy type books, but Nick Cook's credentials make it seem like this might be a serious attempt to dig into the realm of so-called "black projects". Had never heard of Kammler before, so that is interesting too. I agree that an investigation of what actually happened to him would be more interesting than the Hunting Hitler silliness.

 

[MikeKardec]

Based on Filfoster's recommendation and on interesting on-line reviews, I have ordered a copy of Nick Cook's Search for Zero Point Energy book. Normally I shy away from Nazi conspiracy type books, but Nick Cook's credentials make it seem like this might be a serious attempt to dig into the realm of so-called "black projects". Had never heard of Kammler before, so that is interesting too. I agree that an investigation of what actually happened to him would be more interesting than the Hunting Hitler silliness.

I wouldn't give those credentials all that much credit. He's a good writer but seems a bit credulous or is just taking advantage of some current (at the time) legends about WWII. I LOVE this sort of stuff but I don't know how much I believe it. There's a group of writers, very much like the group centered around Graham Hancock (another "out there" guy with old but significant journalistic credentials) who all tend to quote one another as if that actually adds credibility to their stories. There is some smoke to both Cook's and Hancock's fires but it's pretty tenuous and you sort of get to a what's it actually mean point and suddenly the story doubles back on itself and the final conclusion as to what it's all about fades into mist.

There are other theories to the purpose of The Bell that make more sense, and explanations of The Henge. What is true is the Germans were up to something in that part of Poland and an adequate explanation has never (that I've seen) been offered. The spookiest aspect of all, if you think about "mass consciousness" or something of the sort, is the two fiction fiction books that might have touched (or created) The Bell mythology long before it ever appeared as a "real thing." If I remember correctly, Dean Koontz "Lightning" and James Hogan's "The Proteus Operation" are like the same story told from different POVs and use a remarkably Bell-like time travel device.

One interesting aspect of the Hunting Hitler story is that in "following up" on the scuttled Argentine submarine story they seem to have missed the fact that it's been discussed a good deal on Uboat.net and there was some fair info on it's/their (if memory served there were two of them in the report) location. There were also some unidentified people that crossed the Tyrol at the same time certain Nazi celebs escaped. many of the travel documents are still around yet not everyone can be tracked back to a verifiable identity. The Italians were interested in moving refugees out of poverty stricken Italy as fast as possible and there wasn't really a concerted effort to catch every Nazi for years. The first few winters after the war were so hard and there were so many responsibilities for everyone that it just wasn't a priority ... the Italians and the Catholic Church take a lot of the rap for this (and they deserve some of it, in my opinion) but the humanitarian crisis was much worse than what we see today and many of those who get uniformly blamed were just trying to do their best in a time when few had perfect papers and not get overwhelmed.

 

[Tiki Tom]

I wouldn't give those credentials all that much credit. He's a good writer but seems a bit credulous or is just taking advantage of some current (at the time) legends about WWII. I LOVE this sort of stuff but I don't know how much I believe it. There's a group of writers, very much like the group centered around Graham Hancock (another "out there" guy with old but significant journalistic credentials) who all tend to quote one another as if that actually adds credibility to their stories. There is some smoke to both Cook's and Hancock's fires but it's pretty tenuous and you sort of get to a what's it actually mean point and suddenly the story doubles back on itself and the final conclusion as to what it's all about fades into mist.
.

Thanks for the context and the perspective. Appreciated. I, too, am fascinated by this stuff. I generally approach these books hoping to catch a whiff of genuine smoke while expecting there's also a lot of garbage imbedded in the material. Unfortunately a whole industry has arisen to sell an endless stream of idle speculation to a voracious public. I'm generally skeptical, but also occasionally feel the urge to suspect that there is more going on in this world than meets the eye. Besides: it's fun! My copy of "The Hunt for Zero Point" just arrived yesterday. So far, I'm enjoying its X-Files air of mystery and its attempting to tie to reality. Will it go off the rails in 100 pages? We shall see!