Humour about tragedy.

[H.Johnson]

The thing that makes me feel oldest and most out of touch with the social mores of the 21st century is the way people make fun of or even mock personal tragedy. I find it very tasteless to laugh at other peoples' great misfortune.

Last night, my wife called me from my workroom to see a sketch on the Mitchell and Webb show. It was based on three British Antarctic explorers in a tent (a particular interest of mine). They are starving and near to death, but the leader won't let them eat the Christmas pudding they have (because it's not Christmas) or the hamper of fruit and vegetables that he insists on saving for the Harvest Festival. When it transpires that one of the three had been nibbling the chocolates from an Advent calendar, his leader admonishes him for his weakness of character, 'If we were to eat that now, we would be no better than Norwegians!'.

The props were good, the script well written and the comic acting was excellent. The stereotypes were well perceived of Edwardian rigid authoritarianism, hidebound thinking and blind military discipline. I thought, typical self-deprecating humour and mockery of the stereotypical British character. That's funny...

I was actually enjoying the sketch, then suddenly it was spoiled for me. They began to use the actual names of the explorers in Captain RF Scott's party who starved and froze to death on their way back from the Pole within a day's march of the next supply dump. Now, to me, this places a completely different 'slant' on the whole sketch. Surely to lampoon stereotypes is acceptable but to mock actual individuals is to me 'one step too far'. Particularly when, whatever their personal traits may have been, they made a great sacrifice and met their end with quiet bravery and dignity. I find this tasteless.

I wonder if I am alone in this? Do I need to change my personal attitudes to meet modern attitudes?

 

[Shangas]

People have been making fun of others' misfortunes for centuries. It didn't stop 200 years ago and I doubt it'll stop anytime soon. The fact that it continues seems to tell me one thing, that some people have a sense of humor and can laugh at themselves or at morbid subjects and that this is, if not acceptable, then at least tolerated. If it wasn't a social taboo 50 years ago and isn't one now, I don't think it ever will be.

 

[Lokar]

You're definitely not alone. I find many modern "edgy jokes" distasteful. I'm also disgusted at the amount of people writing "funny" words, like "lollercaust" or, as I've seen recently, getting "screwed" being written as getting "jewed".

 

[Edward]

HJ, I know exactly what you mean - I also saw that sketch last night, as I'm quite a fan of Mitchell and Webb. I did find it very amusing indeed, though yes I agree with you that it would have been preferable had they not used those particular names as it could be interpreted as being distasteful. I've seen a whole lot worse, though - not least the Kit Kat ad from back some time in the early 90s which featured Oates "going out [for] some time"..... to a Carribean holiday he'd just won on a Kit Kat wrapper competition. Now that was truly distasteful, given the nature of Oates' sacrifice, however futile it turned out to have been.

We're seeing something similar with the expiry of Michael Jackson, though having said that, I'm afraid I have some sympathy with much of that. A lot like Diana, Jackson was much criticised (one might say often fairly so) in the media while alive: now that he is dead, there is beginning a ridiculous outpouring of nonsense about his supposed "musical genius", virtual cannonisation of the man, and so on - often by the very same persons and media outlets that so demonised him not so long ago, and would have continued to do so had he lived. It seems to me that sometimes, just sometimes, in a context like this some of that sort of humour can serve to provide a balancing factor to the madness. [huh]

 

[H.Johnson]

With respect, they aren't 'laughing at themselves' in this type of humour - they are laughing at other people. That's my objection. I think it was a social taboo when and where I was brought up. People who had lived through the worst excesses of WW2 would often joke about it themselves, but if anyone who wasn't there tried to make a joke at the expense of those who were...well, let's just say it wasn't appreciated.

I don't doubt that it's acceptable (even cathartic) to laugh in the face of your own tragedies, but the sort of humour I'm referring to here is at other peoples' expense. Does the fact that people have done it for a long time make it acceptable, then?

People have been making fun of others' misfortunes for centuries. It didn't stop 200 years ago and I doubt it'll stop anytime soon. The fact that it continues seems to tell me one thing, that some people have a sense of humor and can laugh at themselves or at morbid subjects and that this is, if not acceptable, then at least tolerated. If it wasn't a social taboo 50 years ago and isn't one now, I don't think it ever will be.

 

[Slim Portly]

People who laugh at the misfortunes of others are no better than Norwegians.

 

[BellyTank]

I would normally play Devil here but I think you're right in this case, Herbert.

Such a sketch, where the place, era, events and even the comedic script, conspire to give a historical context, which must surely be quite obvious to the viewer, names, surely needn't be named.
That is somewhat unnecessary.

Reminiscent of the "obvious" humour we import, which leaves nothing the cleverness of the individual viewer's imagination.

"No better than Norwegians", that's fine.


B
T

 

[H.Johnson]

And there used to be, of course, a more well-defined difference between private humour and humour (of any kind) on a mainstream broadcast medium. People would joke about WW2 in private, but refer to the thread on the fuss that attended the first broadcasts of Dad's Army in 1968.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=33013
Although the script carefully avoided all references to the 'horrors of war' there was still a lot of disquiet by the press and BBC 'brass' (and, as I remember it, the public) that WW2 wasn't a suitable subject for a comedy.

As I recall, in the UK similar contemporary feelings attended the production of 'Oh, What a Lovely War!' and a war comedy film that featured John Lennon that was so memorable that its name escapes me completely...
<added later> I believe it was called 'How I Won the War' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_I_Won_the_War
<added even later> It should be remembered, perhaps, that both Patrick Ryan (who wrote the novel on which the film was based) and Spike Miligan (who wrote in a similar vein) had served extensively in WW2 and therefore qualified to comment humorously by 'being there'.

I don't think any of these productions would raise any objections on mainstream TV or film today.

 

[Paisley]

There was a show in the U.S. in the 70s and early 80s called M*A*S*H about an army field hospital during the Korean War. There was concern about how it would be received. The show poked fun at the pompous (Maj. Charles Emerson Winchester III) the childish (Maj. Frank Burns) the inflexible (Maj. Margaret Houlihan and the army in general) and the awful (army food). The show did not make jokes at the expense of enlisted people or Koreans unless they were behaving badly.

It was a hit and lasted longer than the war itself.

 

[J. M. Stovall]

Here's a timely example. Yesterday a friend of a friend posted on Facebook this entry: "Michael Jackson died today......lol."

I'm not a Michael Jackson fan but that just seems over the line.

 

[carter]

Here's a timely example. Yesterday a friend of a friend posted on Facebook this entry: "Michael Jackson died today......lol."

I'm not a Michael Jackson fan but that just seems over the line.

Agreed.

 

[BellyTank]

There was a show in the U.S. in the 70s and early 80s called M*A*S*H about an army field hospital during the Korean War....
...It was a hit and lasted longer than the war itself.

M*A*S*H was filmed in California, set in Korea but about the war in Vietnam.
It was indeed very funny and clever (until Alan Alda took over) but also had it's serious, somber and sensitive moments- this, I think, is how it managed to captivate the world.

M*A*S*H is known and appreciated, the world over.
Maybe less in Korea and Vietnam...


B
T

 

[Lily Powers]

M*A*S*H was at least an intelligent series, but how about Hogan's Heroes, the comedy about military prisoners in a WWII German concentration camp? I saw it as a very little girl and liked watching the faces of the actors, but it wouldn't be years later in school when I learned about the atrocities of WWII and then wondered why HH so funny. Not the same as "gallows humor" that some personnel in certain work environs use among themselves to keep themselves sane.

 

[Tango Yankee]

There was a show in the U.S. in the 70s and early 80s called M*A*S*H...


It was a hit and lasted longer than the war itself.

fftopic:
Well, technically, it didn't. As we were told many times when I was stationed in Korea in '86, and as they keep mentioning recently when talking about what North Korea is up to now, the war never officially ended. An armistice was signed, and in '91 a non-aggression treaty, but no peace treaty.

M*A*S*H did a marvelous job of showing how people use "gallows humor" to deal with the insanity that is war. "First Responders" use it as well as many others in positions that deal with horrible situations. It may seem inappropriate to outsiders looking in, but it helps them cope.

As for the original topic, I agree that personalizing the jokes about people who died in such a situation is a bit over the top. The humor works, right up until you put a face on it. Then it's not so funny.

Regards,
Tom

P.S. I have fond memories of my time in Korea. It's where I met my wife!

 

[MrNewportCustom]

Everyone finds a reason to laugh during even the hardest of times. Everyone. We need to laugh during these times, and laughing at the event itself is the most common and cathartic method of coping with it. How many times have you heard, or even said of something you did, "Someday, we're going to laugh about this"?

Humor is a coping mechanism. As Hawkeye Pierce (M*A*S*H, again) once said, "Sometimes you have to be a little insane to keep your sanity." With the world the way it is today - and, if you think about it, always has been - we all need something to take our mind off of it all, even if it's about it all. Especially if it's about it all.

But no matter your feelings on humor in the face of adversity, you'll find that the following is universally true: "Everything is funny if you wait long enough." (Kinky Friedman said that - as author and character - in one of his novels.) It may not be true to you about a certain event, but it is to everyone about something.

And don't worry about MJ, he'll live on in sightings. Think about it: There have been sightings of Elvis, Jim Morrison and the Virgin Mary for what seems like forever. Michael Jackson will soon join their ranks.


Lee
__________________

Viva la Michael Jackson!

 

[Foofoogal]

Humor is a coping mechanism.

A bit fftopic: absolutely.
My whole family laughs at the most serious times. They nearly threw myself, my brother and sister out of the funeral home when we were picking out stuff for our mothers funeral. The more serious the director got the more we rolled and I mean rolled tears falling down laughing. lol It was hilarious.
I have no idea why but it is a family thing.

as far as the recent events my mother did teach that if one cannot say anything good about a person then keep quiet. [huh]

 

[Cigarband]

A bit fftopic: absolutely.
My whole family laughs at the most serious times. They nearly threw myself, my brother and sister out of the funeral home when we were picking out stuff for our mothers funeral. The more serious the director got the more we rolled and I mean rolled tears falling down laughing. lol It was hilarious.
I have no idea why but it is a family thing. [huh]

My Family is the same way, we laugh at the most serious times.

 

[Lady Jessica]

My Family is the same way, we laugh at the most serious times.

Not my family, only me. It's just how I am.

 

[Viola]

You're definitely not alone. I find many modern "edgy jokes" distasteful. I'm also disgusted at the amount of people writing "funny" words, like "lollercaust" or, as I've seen recently, getting "screwed" being written as getting "jewed".

Unpleasant as it is, I must say that "getting gypped" or "jewed" or "jewing" someone down on the price of something, are all Golden Age.

M*A*S*H was at least an intelligent series, but how about Hogan's Heroes, the comedy about military prisoners in a WWII German concentration camp? I saw it as a very little girl and liked watching the faces of the actors, but it wouldn't be years later in school when I learned about the atrocities of WWII and then wondered why HH so funny. Not the same as "gallows humor" that some personnel in certain work environs use among themselves to keep themselves sane.

Hogan's Heroes was written and acted in mostly by Jews of the Golden Era who didn't want the Nazis portrayed as anything worthy of respect. It isn't exactly gallows humor but it is essentially trying to remove all those sleek militaristic Hugo Bass-approved images of black-and-silver Teutonic efficiency and replace it with a bunch of stupid men who should be pitied and ridiculed as drooling morons.

And I did know at least one man who was a WWII vet and a German Jew, who lost his whole family to the Nazis, who liked to watch it on tv in the US, with his grandkid. ("Opa [granddad] liked Hogan's Heroes" sort of blew my mind the first time I heard it, though)

Whether HH did what it was supposed to, or not, I don't think its really laughing at anyone ELSE'S tragedy.

 

[chanteuseCarey]

Maybe its just me, but I sure don't see anything funny or find a reason worth laughing at with what we are going through here. My husband is a computer engineer in No. Calif who has been out of a job for over six months (and only found contract work for 5 months of last year) and is actively looking for work with nothing turning up. I've been a stay at home mom for 16 years, and I'm looking for work too. Nothing turning up. We're two months behind on the house and equity line payments, and four months behind on many other payments. Retirement gone and used, college saving gone and used. We are genuinely worried about losing our home. We're trying to sell whatever possessions we can at half their value or less to bring in some income. The LAST thing I'd say is "Someday, we are going to laugh about this"... Laughing about it all, that's cathartic? You've got to be kidding... it sure wouldn't make either of us, or our two kids feel better.

Everyone finds a reason to laugh during even the hardest of times. Everyone. We need to laugh during these times, and laughing at the event itself is the most common and cathartic method of coping with it. How many times have you heard, or even said of something you did, "Someday, we're going to laugh about this"?


Lee
__________________

Viva la Michael Jackson!