Hugh Jackman hosting the Oscars - Black / White Tie

[Marc Chevalier]

Joe Venuti would like to know what's the matter with looking like a violinist.

Cheeky ... I was talking about the violinists of today.

 

[Lensmaster]

See, that goes against the point that I thought many were making here (though it's entirely possible I've completely misunderstood -- it wouldn't be the first time) -- that a white tie was NOT to be worn when a gentleman was merely "going out in the evening", that it was to be reserved for much more formal occasions.

In the oft-cited (and now linked-to) movie, all three gentlemen are merely out for the evening -- none is attending a formal affair. But all three wear white ties with black tails.

So when Jackman (to return to the original subject of this thread) switched to a white tie to accompany his tux during the Oscar telecast, which rule did he break? What exactly was his faux pas? Was it that he wore a white tie (regardless of the coat he was wearing) at a less than formal affair? Was it that he wore a white tie with a tuxedo? And if the latter, is this always inappropriate? Are white ties meant to be worn only with some variety of tailcoat?

What I understand is that at one time (a long time ago) a gentleman was expected to dress for dinner, which meant wearing white tie. I've seen a number of movies from the twenties and thirties where men dressed that way for dinner. And I mean in more casual situations such as at a small hotel and dinner at home with a few friends. Also I've seen movies from the thirties in which men went to nightclubs, which is not an organized formal event, some in white tie and some in black tie.

 

[3PieceSuitGuy]

Maybe the best way to stage a white tie revival is...

to break the rules! Sure we all know the White tie rules butwealso bemoan the demise of White tie. Maybe the best way to stage a revival is to break the rules. Personally I can live with myself breaking that rule if only one person notices what I am wearing, asks where I got my tails and follows suit (pardon the pun!). It has happened once and it was here in Australia (which has got to be worth bonus points!). Lots of people break sartorial rules every day degrading and eroding dress standards. Why not break one to elevate standards?

Cheers,

Peter.

What I understand is that at one time (a long time ago) a gentleman was expected to dress for dinner, which meant wearing white tie. I've seen a number of movies from the twenties and thirties where men dressed that way for dinner. And I mean in more casual situations such as at a small hotel and dinner at home with a few friends. Also I've seen movies from the thirties in which men went to nightclubs, which is not an organized formal event, some in white tie and some in black tie.

 

[Midnight Blue]

to break the rules! Sure we all know the White tie rules but we also bemoan the demise of White tie. Maybe the best way to stage a revival is to break the rules. Personally I can live with myself breaking that rule if only one person notices what I am wearing, asks where I got my tails and follows suit (pardon the pun!). It has happened once and it was here in Australia (which has got to be worth bonus points!). Lots of people break sartorial rules every day degrading and eroding dress standards. Why not break one to elevate standards?

That's a great idea. Public opinion would be much more likely to be swayed by presenting white tie not as an obligation but as a rebellion. The sight of someone in white tie at a black-tie event could very well influence fashion mavericks considering that the other dinner jacket alternative - a black suit and tie - has become so common today that it can no longer be considered trendy.

 

[Orgetorix]

That's a great idea. Public opinion would be much more likely to be swayed by presenting white tie not as an obligation but as a rebellion. The sight of someone in white tie at a black-tie event could very well influence fashion mavericks considering that the other dinner jacket alternative - a black suit and tie - has become so common today that it can no longer be considered trendy.

Maybe, but I doubt it for one significant reason: white tie, more than any other form of dress is about rules. It's as close to a uniform as a civilian gets, and there is virtually no leeway regarding the details if one still wants to be correct.

Modern individualists dress abominably in part because they are rebelling against any sort of rules for dress--style has come to be seen as essentially involved with mixing pieces that don't belong together or are wrong for the occasion. Hence all the red-carpet atrocities that we see each awards season.

Someone who has a reputation for dressing well--Brad Pitt or George Clooney, say--might consider wearing white tie at some point. But they'd do it probably as a one-off deal, to make a statement, and go on to other "looks" afterwards. Someone like Johnny Depp might show up at the red carpet with white tie and tails above, but plus-fours and Chuck Taylors below. Justin Timberlake would show up in white tie with his shirt tail hanging out and a purple canvas trilby on his head. Classic white tie is just too restrictive for the free-spirited way that celebs today approach clothing, and, realistically, that's never going to change.

 

[chanteuseCarey]

wanted to join in on this very interesting thread...

My husband has both white tie and tails and a single button tuxedo, as does our 12-1/2 yo son. My husband ended purchasing his single button tuxedo in 1992 in plenty of time for our Valentine's Day wedding as we went to a number of formal events as soon as we started dating (we are social ballroom dancers, and symphony goers). He rented a tux once. He added the purchase of tailcoat and white tie and vest for the daytime Sunday church wedding, the groomsmen wore single button tuxedos. At the time he bought the tuxedo the saying was if you wear a tux six times in two years you've warranted buying one. He wore his six times in six months after getting it. My adage is, "if I have the dress/vintage clothes, I'll find an event to wear them to."

Our son's one button single tuxedo and tail coat with white tie and tail were all found on evilBay this past December. He's worn the white tie and tails three times already. Single button once so far. He's already outgrowing the pants, but still has room in the coats, shirts and vests. For a March 1-3 '09 Art Deco event in Yosemite at the Ahwahnee Hotel, we rented him a DB tux as he needed larger pants, it was the same to rent the entire ensemble as for just the pants.

At 12-/2 he is a Fred Astaire wannabe, and wants an art deco wardrobe! He's a ballroom dancer too and a good lead. He has short hair (ala' Fred) and puts pomade/wax in it for dressy events or even for school-he's a 7th grader. No nintendo or xbox, he READS, and watches old movies especially the musicals. His all time favorite movie is "Scaramouche" starring Stewart Granger and Mel Ferrer. We don't have cable TV here, got rid of it years ago. To say the least, he is a rare kid among today's younger generation. I say that I am raising the only romantic man of his generation...

At Yosemite, the Gala Dinner in the Ahwahnee Dining Room was Black Tie, and the Grand Ball in the Great Lounge the next evening was White Tie.

Here are pics of our decidedly dapper son taken at the Yosemite event. We snitched a carnation each night out out of the hotel's floral displays:

Aside for the Art Deco event weekend, he has worn his formal wear at Xmas, NYE and a Feb 09 Pops Orchestra concert. Purchase of a DB tux jacket and large size pants for him is next on the list. Kids tuxedos on evilbay are actually very reasonable- the single button jacket and pants we first got him is a Tommy Hilfiger 100% wool, found for only $49.99. The tailcoat was a deal at $19.99. Tux shirts ten bucks.

I had always said that I'd buy him a tux when he turned sixteen, but he has had occasions to wear one (and he loves wearing formal wear too) four years sooner! That's my boy!