How would you handle this situation?

[Atg_Stl]

Recently purchased a Y’2 jacket from an online retailer based out of Germany called Stuf|f, and was excited about the purchase since I got the jacket at a slight discount as compared to S&S or the Shop. Unfortunately, it seems I may have gotten taken for a bit of a ride!

The jacket arrived today and it seems fairly obvious that it is a used jacket as there are multiple black markings and stains of some sort all over the thing. The jacket is a Kakishibu singles rider and based upon the coloring it seems to me that it’s been exposed to the elements. I’ve seen this leather before and I’m almost sure it should be a lot paler in color than what’s shown here if it was brand new.

Obviously, I’ve reached out to the seller to try and get the return process started, but in this scenario I really don’t feel like I should be on the hook for paying the return shipping to Germany. I also had to pay $72 in import fees to receive the jacket, which I highly doubt they’ll reimburse me for. I’m debating if this situation warrants contacting my credit card company and filing a dispute for misrepresentation of the product all together, but I won’t take that step unless the seller refuses the return.

I’m curious tho, how would folks here handle this type of situation?!

 

[cbez]

First of all, if I were buying a $1600 jacket from a relatively small shop, I would ask for pics.

Kakishibu is all marketed as being this super rustic, natural tanning and leather style, that is meant to age and patina.

If you want a super uniform topcoat, there are thousands of jackets out there with blasted on pigment topcoat that look like that.

I would not say that jacket is used. You can see similar marks all throughout their product photos. Yours is definitely on the more 'marked' side of the spectrum, but that is basically just how kakishibu is. I've seen very pale and more aged looking ones being sold. In general, you should expect any light colored veg tan jacket to change color and show all kinds of markings and stains, unless you keep it in a glass case.

From their product description:

but even right from the start, the leather is perfectly imperfect, with visible markings and variations in the leather that are innate characteristics of natural leathers.
---
*please note: natural horsehide leather is minimally processed to allow natural markings and characteristics to show. these variations are part of the hides themselves and are not flaws.

These small shops tend to have great customer service and will likely accept the return. Eat the shipping as the cost of not doing your research and having unrealistic expectations. If you jump to a chargeback over this you will look like a clown in my opinion.

 

[cbez]

for reference these are my bounty hunters in natural maryam. a light color aniline leather can't stay light or not have marks, you have to get a pigment dye if you want that.

 

[AerGuitar]

Are you certain that it’s a used jacket? Do you have any pics of the entire sleeve(s)? I would venture to guess that a used jacket would have plenty of creasing, stacking, tunneling, or however you prefer to describe it in the sleeves. Lighter color hides tend to show all of the natural imperfections more so than the darker ones. Different batches will have color variance, and I’d also assume that a natural color hide would change in color slightly due to being displayed near a window in a shop.

 

[Bennarion]

I don't think the jacket was used. These spots may remain after the leather manufacturing process. In any case, when you wear a jacket, the leather will darken to a caramel color and spots will appear in different places. If the jacket suits you, wear it and don't pay attention to the stains.

 

[Atg_Stl]

You very well may be correct and maybe I am guilt of not fully understanding how this particular leather should look. However, I recently purchased the same jacket a size smaller than this and it definitely looked far paler in color and did not have any markings such as this. Unfortunately, that one didn't fit so I sold it and purchased this one a size larger, but I'm not going to be keeping this one either. I could certainly see them putting this piece by a display window or something, which would explain the coloring. Fingers crossed they are cool to work with on a return, but still sucks to eat a couple hundred bucks in fees and shipping costs with nothing to show for it.

 

[MrProper]

Do you basically like the jacket? If so, I would keep them. It looks good and after a week's wear it will have the odd stain. That's part and parcel of natural leather.
Otherwise, swallow the costs and enquire about the returns in advance next time. That's why I don't buy anything that I might have to return if it involves high return costs.

 

[Atg_Stl]

Appreciate the response. Unfortunately, I'm having shit luck with this jacket as even this size doesn't fit right, so it's gotta go back no matter what. I know my measurements but for whatever reason this particular style of jacket just doesn't seem to work for me. I loved the look of the 42 but the sleeves ended up being too short and it was just a bit too tight across the chest. This size doesn't have those issues but now it looks too boxy on me, so I'm guessing I'm just not a good candidate for Japanese sizing.

 

[AerGuitar]

You very well may be correct and maybe I am guilt of not fully understanding how this particular leather should look. However, I recently purchased the same jacket a size smaller than this and it definitely looked far paler in color and did not have any markings such as this. Unfortunately, that one didn't fit so I sold it and purchased this one a size larger, but I'm not going to be keeping this one either. I could certainly see them putting this piece by a display window or something, which would explain the coloring. Fingers crossed they are cool to work with on a return, but still sucks to eat a couple hundred bucks in fees and shipping costs with nothing to show for it.

If you are unhappy with the jacket now, you may never be happy with it, and I’m sure no one could convince you otherwise. That is certainly up to you, but I don’t believe that the seller has tried to pull anything over on you based on the pics you’ve shown. In the end, you are the one spending big money on an item to bring you some joy, so I wish you luck finding the right one!

 

[Jeef]

The marks on the leather wouldn’t bother me. I think the first time you wear it out of the house it would get all marked up anyway. But I wouldn’t expect to recover any shipping or import costs if you do return it.

The jacket not fitting right would bother me so I’d return it if that’s an option. I had a Y2 jacket that on paper all the measurements seemed perfect but the fit was really bad somehow and it wasn’t comfortable to move in. And I hated the leather too lol. I sold it on.

 

[cbez]

You very well may be correct and maybe I am guilt of not fully understanding how this particular leather should look. However, I recently purchased the same jacket a size smaller than this and it definitely looked far paler in color and did not have any markings such as this. Unfortunately, that one didn't fit so I sold it and purchased this one a size larger, but I'm not going to be keeping this one either. I could certainly see them putting this piece by a display window or something, which would explain the coloring. Fingers crossed they are cool to work with on a return, but still sucks to eat a couple hundred bucks in fees and shipping costs with nothing to show for it.

your pic has the same tone as their product photos.

and again, you can't keep that pale color for long anyway.

 

[Atg_Stl]

The marks on the leather wouldn’t bother me. I think the first time you wear it out of the house it would get all marked up anyway. But I wouldn’t expect to recover any shipping or import costs if you do return it.

The jacket not fitting right would bother me so I’d return it if that’s an option. I had a Y2 jacket that on paper all the measurements seemed perfect but the fit was really bad somehow and it wasn’t comfortable to move in. And I hated the leather too lol. I sold it on.

This seems to be my experience as well with Y'2 jackets unfortunately. Again, I suspect I'm just not the right candidate for Japanese made jackets. I have a custom made Double Helix that is to my exact measurements and even that one is still not the most comfortable to wear if I'm being honest, but damn if it doesn't look good! I'm hoping I can recoup my money on this one, if so I'm going to give Thedi leathers a shot instead.

 

[Bennarion]

if so I'm going to give Thedi leathers a shot instead.

If you buy directly from Thedi, be prepared for a long wait.

I think it was interesting for all of us to see the photo of how the Y2 jacket suits you.

 

[Bfd70]

End of the day if you are returning it anyhow due to size the other issues are irrelevant. Like mr proper said, adopt a don’t buy from places with difficult or expensive returns.

 

[Tom71]

Hmm, I have a Y2-jacket in the same hide. It´s the "Chore-Coat", which is a shop-exclusive from "The Shop Vancouver".

When it arrived, it showed the same charactersitics which apperaded as "scarring", coulor-variations or even "stains". All this was advertised and discussed prior to purchase. The hide was sold as "scarred Kakishibu".
Unlike the "saddle-horse" leather from Y2 the Kakishibu is a veg-tanned hide in a natural color but it´s not "unfinished" in the sense that it starts off pale and rapidly tans. It gets darker, yes, but rather over a proölonged period.

I don´t think that the hide is faulty, and looking at the "Stuff" website, all the markings are referred to in the description.

It´s unfortunate that you don´t like the look of the hide (or is it rather that the kjacket doesn´t fit), but I don´t think you need to worry that it´s been used before (which should show at least in the chracteriscid rolls on the sleeves anyway...).

 

[bigmanbigtruck]

It’s important to keep in mind the return policies and import costs whenever you shop for these kinds of items.

Even S&S put pics like this on their website, and this is assuming they went through each jacket to find the cleanest looking one. Not to mention all the studio lighting they use which may lessen the contrast and make the marks less distinguishable.



On top of that, you said yourself that the fit is off anyway.

So short answer to your question “How would you handle this situation?”, return this, eat the cost and find a different one.

 

[Carlos840]

Recently purchased a Y’2 jacket from an online retailer based out of Germany called Stuf|f, and was excited about the purchase since I got the jacket at a slight discount as compared to S&S or the Shop. Unfortunately, it seems I may have gotten taken for a bit of a ride!

The jacket arrived today and it seems fairly obvious that it is a used jacket as there are multiple black markings and stains of some sort all over the thing. The jacket is a Kakishibu singles rider and based upon the coloring it seems to me that it’s been exposed to the elements. I’ve seen this leather before and I’m almost sure it should be a lot paler in color than what’s shown here if it was brand new.

Obviously, I’ve reached out to the seller to try and get the return process started, but in this scenario I really don’t feel like I should be on the hook for paying the return shipping to Germany. I also had to pay $72 in import fees to receive the jacket, which I highly doubt they’ll reimburse me for. I’m debating if this situation warrants contacting my credit card company and filing a dispute for misrepresentation of the product all together, but I won’t take that step unless the seller refuses the return.

I’m curious tho, how would folks here handle this type of situation?!

To me this looks like a new jacket definitely not used.
These marks look normal for a natural leather of this type...

IMO you are not entitled to a free return, if you want to return it pay for shipping and do things the right way.