How would you earn a living?

[rjb1]

Warning - This is somewhat off-topic so I'll put it all in parentheses, but it could be useful to some Lounge members or their families:

(What ChiTownScion says concerning graduate or professional education: "Grad or professional school, on the other hand, is for those who have obtained their general education and have decided their vocational path. And sadly, this is where debt becomes the bigger burden." is true in most cases, but definitely not so for engineering.
You can get a Ph. D. in engineering that not only costs you nothing, but actually pays you money. If you get accepted to a good Ph. D. program your tuition will be paid, your health insurance will be paid, and you will be paid to be there (typically $1500-2000 per month) as you complete your education. Probably most Lounge members may be too old to be starting college, but if your children or grandchildren have appropriate interests and abilities, the chance for paid post-grad education is there for the taking. This is not well known, but in the modern era of concern over student debt, this may be handy information for someone.)

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled thread topic...

 

[HudsonHawk]

Warning - This is somewhat off-topic so I'll put it all in parentheses, but it could be useful to some Lounge members or their families:

(What ChiTownScion says concerning graduate or professional education: "Grad or professional school, on the other hand, is for those who have obtained their general education and have decided their vocational path. And sadly, this is where debt becomes the bigger burden." is true in most cases, but definitely not so for engineering.
You can get a Ph. D. in engineering that not only costs you nothing, but actually pays you money. If you get accepted to a good Ph. D. program your tuition will be paid, your health insurance will be paid, and you will be paid to be there (typically $1500-2000 per month) as you complete your education. Probably most Lounge members may be too old to be starting college, but if your children or grandchildren have appropriate interests and abilities, the chance for paid post-grad education is there for the taking. This is not well known, but in the modern era of concern over student debt, this may be handy information for someone.)

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled thread topic...

Come to think of it, I'm not sure I know anyone who paid for grad school. Everyone's was paid for in some way or another. Of course, none of them were hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for their undergrad degree either.

 

[filfoster]

I paid for grad school but back in the '70's, it wasn't that bad and it was a night law school program, so I worked for $ to pay for it by day.

 

[LizzieMaine]

You have to get thru the undergraduate degree first. Here in Maine, a four-year program -- non-residential, and incorporating the Maine resident discount -- at the University of Maine costs a total of $46,000. That might sound like peanuts to you high rollers from Texas and New York and what not, but the median income here is about $45,000 a year -- and a lot less than that away from Cumberland County. Most 18-year olds from Maine don't have parents who can write them checks. A kid who has to support herself *and* go to school full time is looking at debt no matter how hard she works. And if she intends to live on campus -- which would be a big mistake given the reputation of Camp Orono -- it'd be even more expensive and ridiculous.

 

[ChiTownScion]

..... Here in Maine, a four-year program -- non-residential, and incorporating the Maine resident discount -- at the University of Maine costs a total of $46,000. That might sound like peanuts to you high rollers from Texas and New York and what not, but the median income here is about $45,000 a year -- and a lot less than that away from Cumberland County. Most 18-year olds from Maine don't have parents who can write them checks. A kid who has to support herself *and* go to school full time is looking at debt no matter how hard she works. And if she intends to live on campus -- which would be a big mistake given the reputation of Camp Orono -- it'd be even more expensive and ridiculous.

That is, as I noted earlier, the tragedy these days: it's becoming more and more unaffordable to the kid who is willing to work had and put his or her way through college.

My parents wanted to micro-manage my higher education, so I essentially told them to take their money and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. In the most diplomatic manner, of course. That meant 2 years at the local community college, something that many did and still do scoff at. The end result, however, is that I cut my costs for those first 2 years considerably, and was able to transfer in with 60 semester hours credit, upper classman status, and all core curriculum course requirements satisfied. Another upside was that by the time I finally did go away to university, I was 20 years old as opposed to 18: those 2 years may not seem like much but it really was a world of difference to me.

Another shortcut for a really bright kid is to CLEP out of basic courses: if you're well read and had a decent high school education you can test out of as much as a full year of courses.

And then, of course, there's the premise that 4 years of college is predicated upon 8 semesters with 15 hours per semester. Amp that course load up to 18 hours (six typical courses) and you knock a semester off at the end.

It's a lot more expensive to do it by any game plan now than it was in the 1970's.... but it's not impossible.

And regarding party school reputations: working any rotten low paying job that I could every summer was great aversion therapy in that department. I had more fun haunting the stacks in the library all weekend than bar hopping or a frat membership could have provided, and it was a lot easier on the budget.

 

[HudsonHawk]

You have to get thru the undergraduate degree first. Here in Maine, a four-year program -- non-residential, and incorporating the Maine resident discount -- at the University of Maine costs a total of $46,000. That might sound like peanuts to you high rollers from Texas and New York and what not, but the median income here is about $45,000 a year -- and a lot less than that away from Cumberland County. Most 18-year olds from Maine don't have parents who can write them checks. A kid who has to support herself *and* go to school full time is looking at debt no matter how hard she works. And if she intends to live on campus -- which would be a big mistake given the reputation of Camp Orono -- it'd be even more expensive and ridiculous.

High roller? My undergrad degree in Texas cost less than $5,000. And I had to work and pay my way.

 

[ingineer]

LizzieMaine;
Sorry to hear you speak despairingly about my Alma Mater UMO.
It's not MIT for certain, but had a pretty good school of Engineering /Technology
Plus it was far cheaper.
In addition if you did not have a lot of money' there were the cabins to live in.
University is what you make it.
I hope things have not changed. This was one of the few that did not place football over academics.
Hunting, fishing, skiing , Parachute club, Outdoor club, Pilot instructions Audit astronomy, forestry ,etc all good. Even if I was from far away, I had a lot of friends there



RJB1
I think it is better than that in Engineering or hope it still is, After getting an A.S. In Technology,
I had full tilt for my B.S., worked summers and vacation time in the paper mills to pay for every thing else. I was offered more, but I am not smart enough for the doctorate.
Funny how I remember the freshman engineering class of filling up an entire auditorium, and 14 of us graduating. That is out of an enrollment of about 10,000. I think you need a INTJ personality ( Blessing or Curse? ) to do it.

Richard

 

[LizzieMaine]

High roller? My undergrad degree in Texas cost less than $5,000. And I had to work and pay my way.

"High roller" is shorthand for "places where there's a lot more money floating around than there is here."

You can't even get a parking space on campus for $5000 anymore.

The Cabins are now overrun with the party crowd. Police raids every weekend.

 

[HudsonHawk]

"High roller" is shorthand for "places where there's a lot more money floating around than there is here."

You can't even get a parking space on campus for $5000 anymore.

The Cabins are now overrun with the party crowd. Police raids every weekend.

Sure read like a shot at me because I didn't go into crippling debt to pay for school. My apologies if I read it wrong.

 

[LizzieMaine]

No offense meant and none taken.

 

[Oldpagan]

Law Enforcement basics have not changed much between then and now, so I'd have a job.

 

[Atticus Finch]

I don't think I would be much of an attorney, anymore. The law constantly changes and I would have great difficulty "unlearning" all the cases, statutes and regulations that have become part of our jurisprudence since the 'thirties. I'd be telling prosecutors that their police officers had violated my client's Miranda rights, and they'd be looking at me like I was from Mars.

But I’m a half decent carpenter. So maybe I could survive doing that.

AF

 

[rjb1]

I'm lucky in that basic undergrad engineering courses haven't changed that much at the fundamental level. The same Bernoulli equation used to explain how the Wright Brothers flew in 1903 also applies to how Boeing 787's fly today.

 

[Shangas]

Atticus Finch makes a good point. Some professions would transfer better than others. Stuff like doctors and lawyers would have to unlearn a lot of stuff.

 

[sheeplady]

I'm not sure what would transfer from my formal education and work experience.

I suppose I could go back to working in a factory, cleaning houses, or serving.

And then, of course, there's the premise that 4 years of college is predicated upon 8 semesters with 15 hours per semester. Amp that course load up to 18 hours (six typical courses) and you knock a semester off at the end.

It's a lot more expensive to do it by any game plan now than it was in the 1970's.... but it's not impossible.

And regarding party school reputations: working any rotten low paying job that I could every summer was great aversion therapy in that department. I had more fun haunting the stacks in the library all weekend than bar hopping or a frat membership could have provided, and it was a lot easier on the budget.

You can also do double duty by taking graduate level courses for all of your electives (including electives in your major) if the professor will let you register for the grad credits. That will also cut a semester off your graduate degree.

As far as party school reputations, I've been at schools who have had "party school" reputations and ones that haven't (both as a student and as a staff or faculty member). Really there is no true difference. Every college has problems with binge and underage drinking, inappropriate parties, absolutely unacceptable behavior, and outright crimes. Even one case of this is too many.

That said, binge drinking is a huge issue on campuses and there needs to be something done about it. It is a horrible part of many campus cultures and does a huge disservice to the greater community and the young people directly involved.

 

[ChiTownScion]

I don't think I would be much of an attorney, anymore. The law constantly changes and I would have great difficulty "unlearning" all the cases, statutes and regulations that have become part of our jurisprudence since the 'thirties. I'd be telling prosecutors that their police officers had violated my client's Miranda rights, and they'd be looking at me like I was from Mars.

But I’m a half decent carpenter. So maybe I could survive doing that.

AF

On the other hand, all of those forms of action at common law (per Maitland) that some of us had to memorize ad nauseam in First Year might actually have some practical application. And think of all of the great legal minds (Learned Hand, Cardozo, Pound) who were very much alive at the time. Not to mention the ones (like Roger Traynor) who were just starting out and would be so much fun to brainstorm legal theory with. "Re-learning" the law by going back could be a lot of fun-- knowing how so many of the developments in law play out.

 

[Texfield]

You have to get thru the undergraduate degree first. Here in Maine, ...

My darling bride of many years is a Maine-uh. She grew up on timber tract near Lincoln. Not a lot of dough in logging in those days. Good thing she was a smarty pants! When she applied for grad school she found that the lower the school was in national standings the more they offered in student aid. The higher, the less they offered. She went to the No. 1 school in her field (Industrial Psychology), Old Dominion in VA. She paid full ride for it. Good investment and I am glad she went there...it is where we met!

I did grad school at night compliments of the the US Navy while on active service. Even salty old Chiefs can learn a new thing or two.

 

[Foxer55]

I would probably be pumping gas and fixing cars to get enough flight time in one of these to become an experienced pilot.

 

[MikeKardec]

I'm guessing it's actually cheating to say "fortune teller" or "intelligence expert" ... any of us could use what we know of past history in overt ways. We might change the world completely but possibly not for the better!

I think it would be hard for me to make a living in publishing (referencing the above) as long as I didn't remember every best selling book or writer. Back then they wouldn't have needed many of the things I know now and the business was a fairly closed shop. Maxwell Perkins knew my aunt from grade school so I might have had an in if I need one ... my Dad was old enough to be my grandfather and she was old enough to be his mother!

Working as a writer, like my Dad did in those days took a prodigious output in many cases. I don't know if I have those muscles or that confidence ... the confidence to say this first draft is good enough, I'll mail it off. That's how he kept his production up but sometimes he was begging on the street for postage and paper money! If he hesitated or waffled he'd have starved. If I could stay alive while producing something at the speed I can manage today I'd probably be pretty successful ... I've been "ghost" re-writing pulp material for modern publication for 25 years. I can do that stuff in my sleep.

I'd have to do a lot of retraining to my writing talent. Though I started on typewriters without correcting tape I have become a very "back and fill" word processor style of writer ... it's REALLY daunting to remember my Dad plugging out an entire novel, hunt and peck style, with very very few corrections. He did that 3 to 4 times a year. Sheesh!

I don't really think I'd have all that much to offer in radio production, none of the jobs would be strange to me but, given the level of technology, I'm not sure how much of an edge I'd have over my contemporaries. My way of working, and making some sort of special contribution, might be limited. Besides, Lizzie might have that industry sewed up!

On the OTHER HAND, if I could jump a movie studio fence and bamboozle someone into letting me show my stuff I could probably do pretty well (though it was harder then than now to get someone to prove your way into that business). I learned a full set of film skills just before video production started to take over and the business was not the high pressure, high excellence, environment it is today. I've done a bit of everything except lab work and could probably impress with a "just ahead of the curve" style in a number of areas. Most of the production protocols remain the same but 75 years of improving the human side of the methods means productions run very efficiently these days. The biggest challenge would be breaking down the highly entrenched way of doing things that existed before the first "indie explosion" of the 1960s.

On a more realistic and modest note, I have no doubt that I could be a competent picture or sound editor ... and using the bigger technical plants available in movie studios, I could probably put much of what I do every day doing audio dramas to work in a manner that would definitely attract attention.

We all have to realize that very few of the jobs around in those days paid all that well. I live, right now, in the modest home that the leader of the Hal Roach Studio orchestra built for himself in 1938. People who "worked for a living" didn't live like the owners of industries ... the head of a department at any of the studios today could live in a much better house than I do! I'd be happy to have bought this house if I could have afforded it ... though there was some pretty cheap property in Malibu back in those days, it was "too far" out of town!

I'm definitely looking forward to the barely used 1938 Ford Phaeton I going to buy and if you let me bring back hundreds of cultured pearls I might invest in some things and be worth a fortune in no time.

 

[Fading Fast]

MikeKaredec,

One of the best biographies I've read is A. Scott Berg's "Editor of Genius" biography of Maxwell Perkins. Beyond having a interesting life, the biography educated me to the outsized influence and input a great editor can have even on a great writer. Wolfe, Fitzgerald, Hemingway and others owe him quite a debt.

Also, your overall post is very thoughtful and brings up a point I make to my girlfriend all the time. Everybody wasn't rich back then. It might be on borrowed money, it might be a house of cards, but many (not all) people who have regular jobs today live a very nice lifestyle - homes, multiple cars, vacations, closets stuffed with clothes, electronic this and that. That just wan't the case back then.

This is not a criticism of today, just an observation. It might even be a compliment to the growth and strength of our economy - for decades now (recessions not excluded), American's have, on the surface, had more material wealth than their parents or grandparents who had similar jobs in the 20s - 50s. That all might be changing as many today do not do as well as their parents did with the same job in the '80s (but a different story for a different day).

If you watch the movies of the 30s and 40s, you quickly realize that people - even who had "middle class" jobs (like writers or bank clerks, for example) worried about having enough money for food, budgeted extremely carefully for food, saved up to buy or didn't have a car (and they never had two cars), considered one radio in the house a luxury and didn't take vacations other than by car (and, even then, much more modestly than today).