How tough is it to re-shape pre-creased crowns?

[tonyb]

What caveats?

The ones already enumerated in this thread.

 

[tonyb]

And ...

There are numerous other threads here offering advice on reshaping a hat's crown. Much of what's in this thread are rehashes. That's fine by me, as this stuff is basic info a hat guy ought to know, and there's always a new guy coming through the door.

 

[lulo]

Can any pre creased hat be turned into pliable open crown?

What method, if possible.. Steaming? to make a hat more organic, self bashable, or wearable as totally open with no bash.
Like making a Como into an Alessandria.


(PS PM if you are selling anything 59 7 3/8, 2-3 inch brim - especially open)

(PPS - is there an alessandria with a lower crown out there?? - a bit tapered is ok too)

Danke.
5L

 

[lulo]

My post was appended to this old shaping thread. But I'm not so much talking about steaming a new static teardrop or diamon into a machine creased hat.. or altering the pre crease...

I am asking about changing any new harder-felt pre-creased hat into a more pliable open crown that can be organically reshaped at will without being totally stuck in a shape defined by a steamer or spritzed, like the behavior of the alessandria...

What method, if possible.. Steaming? to make a hat more organic, self bashable, or wearable as totally open with no bash.
Like making a Como into an Alessandria.


(PS PM if you are selling anything 59 7 3/8, 2-3 inch brim - especially open)

(PPS - is there an alessandria with a lower crown out there?? - a bit tapered is ok too)

Danke.
5L

 

[jlee562]

....all the same information still applies.

If you want an open crown hat, buy an open crown hat.

 

[lulo]

....all the same information still applies.

If you want an open crown hat, buy an open crown hat.

Thanks for your help.

A typical re-shaping of a pre creased hat doesn't so much result in a continuously pliable open crown. I was asking how, if possible given the differences in the felts, that might be achieved.

( as per your suggestion to buy an open crown - I also asked if someone knew of something similar to the alessandria but with a lower silhouette )

Thanks

 

[jlee562]

As the thread explains, significant caveats apply to this approach. The best option is to reblock the hat. You can do as Mr. Dean has done in this thread with the hatshaper. Alternatively, it can be done by a professional. Even then, as resident hatter tonyb notes in the thread, it is possible that the crease lines might not go away completely.

In as far as the felt being "continuously pliable," it is impossible to answer definitively given variations involved.

As far as lower profile, as was told to me by master hatter Art Fawcett, "just crease it lower."

 

[gtdean48]

... if someone knew of something similar to the alessandria but with a lower silhouette ...

Modern HatCo Stetson Stratoliner and Biltmore Pinch...both are factory creased tho...a true, modern, open crown, dry re-crease-able = VS ArtLite

 

[lulo]

Thank you for your reply,

The second half of your response speaks more to my question.
I'd read through the reblocking threads earlier and found that they didn't really answer this - if you reblock a precreased hat without it's bash, you will end up with a dome that eventually pops out any bash you try to give it, as precreased hats are traditionally more firm than hats that are created as Open Crown? So this is not about reblocking but more relaxing a pre-creased-crown into open-crown behavior, so that you can self-bash. I wasn't sure if there was some method, but i'll take it as impossible to answer as you say.
thanks for the help,

As the thread explains, significant caveats apply to this approach. The best option is to reblock the hat. You can do as Mr. Dean has done in this thread with the hatshaper. Alternatively, it can be done by a professional. Even then, as resident hatter tonyb notes in the thread, it is possible that the crease lines might not go away completely.

In as far as the felt being "continuously pliable," it is impossible to answer definitively given variations involved.

As far as lower profile, as was told to me by master hatter Art Fawcett, "just crease it lower."

 

[jlee562]

Modern factory made felts just aren't the same as what was used in vintage hats, which were supplied to the customer as open crown.

 

[gtdean48]

Just because it is open crown does not mean it is can be easily "dry bashed" if I get your drift.
Self-bash is not the same as an easy "dry-bash" hat.
I've taken a few modern hats to open crown to remove the factory creases, so I could "self bash" to a tear drop or diamond.
I still needed to use steam or distilled water due to the shellac in the felt.
Again, the only hats I have handled that can be quickly & easily dry-bashed like some of my vintage ones, are the ArtLite beaver ones.

 

[Joshbru3]

I've done quite a few modern "re-do's" and it is possible to reshape a pre-creased crown but your in for a good amount of work if you want it done right. What I mean is this.....modern day pre-creased crowns when opened up to "Open Crown" position are very short and tapered. That c-crown that Hatco loves to use so much, when opened up is about 5 1/8 - 5 1/4 inches tall at its absolute peak. Its also extremely round and tapered. Usually if you try and redo this type of crown with another type of crease will produce an undesireable look. If you truly want to take a new hat and give it a desirable (at least 5 1/2 inch tall) crown shape, the sweatband will need to be taken out, the felt pulled over a block, felt ironed on a block, brim break re-set, and then sew the sweatband back in. Here's the caveat though, to get that crown height and straighter profile, the felt will stretch a bit, but you will need to use brim width in order to make up most of that crown height. It seems that modern day felt bodies do not stretch as well as vintage ones. You have to be careful though because the tiny holes that were made from the original sweatband stitching, if pulled too hard will tear the felt body when being stretched.

Basically......like everyone else is saying, unless you want a project....and I mean a project......buy a hat with an Open Crown.

 

[lulo]

Just because it is open crown does not mean it is can be easily "dry bashed" if I get your drift.
Self-bash is not the same as an easy "dry-bash" hat.
I've taken a few modern hats to open crown to remove the factory creases, so I could "self bash" to a tear drop or diamond.
I still needed to use steam or distilled water due to the shellac in the felt.
Again, the only hats I have handled that can be quickly & easily dry-bashed like some of my vintage ones, are the ArtLite beaver ones.

Thanks, straight to the point. indeed, I want to dry bash hats. preferably hats that I find used that I'm not to fond of the given shape but think they have something to work with. the original question was how to make a pre creased hat dry bashable, without the need to steam in a new crease.

Bespoke hats are way outa my league here, any economic options out there?

so with the alessandria - is that missing the shellac you mentioned and that's why its dry bashable? same for my travel hat, but thats a much thinner felt.

thanks!

 

[gtdean48]

Thanks, straight to the point. indeed, I want to dry bash hats. preferably hats that I find used that I'm not to fond of the given shape but think they have something to work with. the original question was how to make a pre creased hat dry bashable, without the need to steam in a new crease.

Bespoke hats are way outa my league here, any economic options out there?

so with the alessandria - is that missing the shellac you mentioned and that's why its dry bashable? same for my travel hat, but thats a much thinner felt.

thanks!

I have 3 Alessandrias, the youngest being from the mid-1980s. It does not have the level of shellac of other modern factory made hats that I own.
Travel, rollable, foldaway, etc. hats are made differently to be packed & reshaped. They don't seem to have a high level of shellac either.
You can also try to breakdown the shellac by using ethyl alcohol = some threads on that around here.
I know some folks that get new Akubras & really work the crown to soften it up.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

There are no shortages of threads on creasing / bashing hats and removing factory pressed in creases. I thought I’d add my recent experience:

A used Resistol 3X with a factory that wasn’t to my liking.
1. I misted the felt well with water, but did not saturate it.
2. I popped out the old crease
3. I used the backside of a wooden hat brush to press out the crease lines (I had a domed metal undersized “block” inserted into the crown.). You can improvise here and use anything smooth and hard to use as an anvil to push against.
4. I applied generous and repeated applications of steam and worked on small sections at a time right after steaming the section.

There are still remnants of the old crease lines, but not to the point where they will matter once re-creased.

Before:

After:

With a new crease:

I’m not trying to be pretentious. I know that many here do similar reshaping regularly and many do it better than I do.

 

[Just A Hat Rack]

There are no shortages of threads on creasing / bashing hats and removing factory pressed in creases. I thought I’d add my recent experience:

A used Resistol 3X with a factory that wasn’t to my liking.
1. I misted the felt well with water, but did not saturate it.
2. I popped out the old crease
3. I used the backside of a wooden hat brush to press out the crease lines (I had a domed metal undersized “block” inserted into the crown.). You can improvise here and use anything smooth and hard to use as an anvil to push against.
4. I applied generous and repeated applications of steam and worked on small sections at a time right after steaming the section.

There are still remnants of the old crease lines, but not to the point where they will matter once re-creased.

Before:

View attachment 335700 View attachment 335701


After:

View attachment 335702 View attachment 335703 View attachment 335704 View attachment 335705


With a new crease:

View attachment 335706 View attachment 335707

I’m not trying to be pretentious. I know that many here do similar reshaping regularly and many do it better than I do.

Good tips. I need to fix an old front pinch on my new Penman. It was allegedly going to be reblocked by Penman, but that was not the case. I've been sitting on it for a while now out of disgust. In any case, I was going to post on here for suggestions on how to remove the old pinch. I'm leaning toward lots of steam and using a spoon to try to push it out.

 

[Xylophile]

Talking about a good quality furt-felt hat, like an Akubra... I'm guessing the answer depends at least in part on how much stiffener a manufacturer adds to a hat..?

Does the ease of re-shaping a pre-shaped hat also depend on the sharpness of the original creasing?

Or does judicious application of steam trump everything else?

Thanks for any input, opinions, experiences (says the rookie with many questions)!

I think you can count on everyone's advice to be good, and it's consistent with my experience reshaping an akubra hat sold by David Morgan Company (the hat named after an Australian outdoors-man). I really liked the brown of the hat and wanted to have the experience of blocking it, etc. I got a plastic straight sided block and used steam and water as I recall to get the hat down on the block, which took some doing as it was a pretty close fit. I decided to "work" the felt on both of my campdrafts to loosen it up and attempt the "softness" result you seem be after. They seem to be nearly indestructible, and I was able to soften them up with the brown hat having the most softness and as mentioned you just won't get that "shaping like clay" with this method. An unexpected thing was the cut-like impression made by the shaping process in the brown hat which while not immediately evident in the shaped hat, is visible in the open crown.
I'd say if you decide to take it on, go all out and don't worry about it. You'll be surprised by what happens over and over again and you'll be fearless with hats from now on. I'm a long oval and that was another reason I wanted to try it, made a block the shape of my head, etc. etc. You'll see once you get started.
And, I'd also say a smart thing to do is save your money for a custom made hat as already suggested, which for me would be a Gannon. That way it will fit your head and be just what you want, and I imagine also a great experience.