How to treat a lady...?

[Helen Troy]

Lady Day is SO right on the spot here. In my group of friends, we call the phenonmen "The Friend trap". That`s when a guy signals that he likes a girl, but are not clear enough that he wants more than friendship. Then, it does not take long before the girl has placed him in the "friends"catgory, and it can be very difficoult to get out of that trap!

As a lot of the other girls are saying, nice is good but spineless is not. Good behavior, compliments and consideration is not "too nice". Not beein able to say what you mean ore have a discussion is "too nice."

That`s what made me fall for my man. After a lot of "too nice" guys who seemed almost afraid of me, I found the friendly discussions (art, politics and all that) we had to be very refreshing. That he voiced his opinions, even when they differed from mine, made me feel respected and taken seriosly, and that he really listened to what I said.

 

[Paisley]

Gentleness can be mistaken for lack of spirit. (Or niceness be being a doormat.)

Maybe women are hardwired to want a man who can kill a wildebeast and protect his home and family.

 

[Fletch]

Also, shy men are presumed these days to have something to be shy about.

 

[BettyValentine]

This comes up all the time on another board I frequent because men frequently come around to vent when they are turned down for dates. They often say that they can't get dates because they are "too nice" and "Girls don't like nice guys."

Which is, of course, a crock, and these guys in general deserve the dogpilings they get from indignant female posters who take offense to the whining and the phrase "girls don't like nice guys" -- as though women are some alien creatures that want to be abused and don't like to be treated well. (Instead of, say, completely rational, normal people who maybe just aren't interested in the guy in question.)

I'll admit freely that I've said a guy is "too nice" before. Maybe I was being too nice by not being clear enough, but I was not about to tell a person "I don't want to date you because you are unattractive, whiny, spineless, manipulative and passive-aggressive." Which is often what "too nice" means. "Too Nice" is also code for "you seem nice but there is something wrong with you that I just can't put my finger on."

Some women might have psychological issues which lead them into unhealthy relationships. Assuming that about anyone is rough territory for anyone who is not a trained professional. (Professional busybodies and freelance nosy neighbors do not count.)

I've dated "too nice" guys who wound up loitering around my lobby, calling me at bizarre hours to find out where I am, sending inappropriately expensive gifts or gifts sent at inappropriate times or locations, threatening suicide if I leave them. Weirdly attentive is too nice.

There's a fine line between nice and too nice. It's like the old good idea/bad idea skits. For example: Gifts are nice. Heirloom jewelry on a first date is *too* nice.

And I would never, ever date a guy disrespectful enough to utter the words "girls don't like nice guys."

BV

 

[BettyValentine]

Thats my job.

That's genius. I think more people need people like you.

Maybe movies are leading people astray? I mean, Say Anything was one of my favorite movies growing up, but later in life I realized that Lloyd Dobbler is sitting right smack in "creepy guy" land. He gets away with it because he's John Cusack in a romantic comedy, so everything he does is charming.

But if I brought a guy home and my dad said "So what do you want to do when you graduate?" and the guy said "I want to be with your daughter." I'd be mortified. That's not *normal*. If a guy stood outside my window blaring a boom box to serenade me and woke up my family and all the neighbors, I'd be mortified. I might call the cops. (My dad would probably have done that first.)

Nice gestures, but in real life that is creeeeeepy.

Oh! And on Studio 60 when the guy inundates Amanda Peet with references from everyone he knows telling her why she should date him. She turns him down again and again, and finally is like "This is embarrassing and unprofessional. Will you stop?" and he says "No."

Yeah. That's not cute either. She's his boss, and I would have fired him. In real life nice guys take no for an answer. A gentleman does not attempt to pressure a lady or wear her down.

I'm coming dangerously close to blaming the media for all the creepy guys out there making girls uncomfortable with gestures that work for guys on TV.

BV

 

[Fletch]

"Too Nice" is also code for "you seem nice but there is something wrong with you that I just can't put my finger on."

I'll bet 7 in 10 too-nice calls fall into that category. The 20% of guys who are clingy balls of mush, and the 10% who are really sick control freaks, ruin it for the rest who may just not be so expert at playing the game.

I wish I had a solution for this.

 

[Paisley]

Speaking of creepy, I'm not easily creeped out, but when a guy follows me around the dance floor but doesn't ask me to dance, it really is creepy.

Guys, either fish or cut bait. If she says yes (variations include and are pretty well limited to "OK" and "When?"), cool. If she says anything else, she wants you to leave her alone.

 

[Paisley]

I'll bet 7 in 10 too-nice calls fall into that category. The 20% of guys who are clingy balls of mush, and the 10% who are really sick control freaks, ruin it for the rest who may just not be so expert at playing the game.

I wish I had a solution for this.

Learn the game!

There was a thread on this several months ago (I think it was in the observation bar). I cannot remember enough details about it to do a search, though. Can anyone help?

 

[Novella]

Maybe movies are leading people astray? I mean, Say Anything was one of my favorite movies growing up, but later in life I realized that Lloyd Dobbler is sitting right smack in "creepy guy" land. He gets away with it because he's John Cusack in a romantic comedy, so everything he does is charming.

I think there's got to be some truth in that. A guy singing to a girl in a movie = cute. A guy singing to a girl in real life = creepy! Movies sometimes make me confused and I start to think that being sung to would be nice, but it's all lies.

 

[mysterygal]

I think most girls like a bit of a 'catch'...and I think the same goes for the guys. There needs to be some intrique! To me, jerks are actually boring. Their predictibility of being a complete neandreathal is well, tiring.
I've always loved the 'boy next door' or the 'class clown' type. There's depth to these types that the 'jerk' just doesn't have. The 'jerk' is shallow and so nothing ever goes anywhere, which, who wants that? The thrill of a relationship is getting to know the person. I"ve also found that most 'jerks', tend to be VERY insecure people, with that, there's just too many walls to get to know the real person inside.

 

[beaucaillou]

Guys, either fish or cut bait.

Oh, amen Paisley!

Most ladies here seem to comment on the 'smotherers,' and while I've encountered those before, I tend to meet the slugs... The ones who let *me* open the door for *them*, or expect me to always pay, or some such. What is with that!?! And there's lots of them out there.

 

[Paisley]

Ah yes, the man-boy. Sen. Jack has had some amusing comments on this character, although a quick search didn't turn up anything. Basically, he describes a prototypical male who is grown, but dresses like a five-year-old and lets his spiffy-looking date lead him around and buy him dinner. He's the better-than-nothing, or substitute-for-a-baby for a woman. (This is Sen. Jack's theory; I like a more traditional man, so I don't really know.) Me, I'll take dinner and a DVD with my best friend.

 

[Lady Day]

I've dated "too nice" guys who wound up loitering around my lobby...sending gifts... **much snipping**
BV

Yeah, this is where my co worker was heading. Thats why I said creepy instead of friend. Hes a good guy, and I want him to have a shot, but he needs to be more blunt at times. Not fall for the 'idea' of who he thinks this girl is, but know about her and go from there.

I wish him luck.

LD

 

[Fletch]

Learn the game!

See, I was never good at playing games with the other kids. I usually got my clock cleaned and got all mad and frustrated, not necessarily in that order.

 

[mysterygal]

See, I was never good at playing games with the other kids. I usually got my clock cleaned and got all mad and frustrated, not necessarily in that order.

And this is why I think certain people 'fit' together better than others. The biggest turn on for a girl (though a lot of this I speak personally) is to show interest. A girl/lady wants to be looked in the eyes and have the gentleman's full attention, not feeling like she's having to win a competetion game to get a full sentence out.
A lot of people get a big thrill from the cat and mouse game. So in this both people need to keep an ilusive distance. Not my thing, but, to each their own!
The relationships that truly last are the one's that are built on a relationship. Meaning, a friendship needs to be established. Rushing full on to a sexual relationship, the focus is usually no longer on discovering the personality of the person.

 

[Shearer]

And this is why I think certain people 'fit' together better than others. The biggest turn on for a girl (though a lot of this I speak personally) is to show interest. A girl/lady wants to be looked in the eyes and have the gentleman's full attention, not feeling like she's having to win a competetion game to get a full sentence out.
A lot of people get a big thrill from the cat and mouse game. So in this both people need to keep an ilusive distance. Not my thing, but, to each their own!
The relationships that truly last are the one's that are built on a relationship. Meaning, a friendship needs to be established. Rushing full on to a sexual relationship, the focus is usually no longer on discovering the personality of the person.

Totally agree, mysterygal. The whole "falling in love with your best friend" cliche may be a bit out there, but there's tons to be said about being able to sit across from someone at dinner and have good conversation. Maybe I'm all about delayed gratification now, but isn't nice to have something to look forward to? Otherwise you get the whole, "Well, now what?" lull in the relationship.

 

[Paisley]

And this is why I think certain people 'fit' together better than others. The biggest turn on for a girl (though a lot of this I speak personally) is to show interest. A girl/lady wants to be looked in the eyes and have the gentleman's full attention, not feeling like she's having to win a competetion game to get a full sentence out.
A lot of people get a big thrill from the cat and mouse game. So in this both people need to keep an ilusive distance. Not my thing, but, to each their own!
The relationships that truly last are the one's that are built on a relationship. Meaning, a friendship needs to be established. Rushing full on to a sexual relationship, the focus is usually no longer on discovering the personality of the person.

Social signals range from the obvious to the very subtle. When a person does not pick up on the subtler signals, love can, indeed, seem like a confusing game. (This is what I meant--not trying to impress someone who has a roving eye or an oversized ego.) Hence, we have girls saying, "You're a nice guy, but I just don't want a relationship right now," and guys hearing, "Girls don't want nice guys!" or worse, "Maybe she'll want a relationship next weekend!" when the girl meant, "I don't mean to be rude, but I'm not interested in you."

 

[mysterygal]

Totally agree, mysterygal. The whole "falling in love with your best friend" cliche may be a bit out there, but there's tons to be said about being able to sit across from someone at dinner and have good conversation. Maybe I'm all about delayed gratification now, but isn't nice to have something to look forward to? Otherwise you get the whole, "Well, now what?" lull in the relationship.

lol Exactly! To me, the whole purpose to pursue a person is to develop a strong friendship, ie; having a best friend. A boyfriend/spouse really should be this, a best friend to you. There's something about having someone who you feel like their on your side that makes you feel like you can conquer the world! (plus, in sexual relationships, I truly think it makes it more enjoyable)

 

[mysterygal]

Social signals range from the obvious to the very subtle. When a person does not pick up on the subtler signals, love can, indeed, seem like a confusing game. (This is what I meant--not trying to impress someone who has a roving eye or an oversized ego.) Hence, we have girls saying, "You're a nice guy, but I just don't want a relationship right now," and guys hearing, "Girls don't want nice guys!" or worse, "Maybe she'll want a relationship next weekend!" when the girl meant, "I don't mean to be rude, but I'm not interested in you."

Ah yes, good point! I remember growing up (I always had friends over) my mother would say things like, 'wow, that boy sure likes you', but unless she said something because she happened to pick up on a look or whatever, generally I was totally oblivious to it. Makes me wonder on all the times I thought of how nice a guy was being and how frustrated he might be because of just throwing subtle clues that I was supposed to pick up on!
I think for both men and women though it is VERY scary to throw yourself out there and be vulnerable when expressing your true feelings. If it is not reciprocated, OUCH! But nothing comes without risks!

 

[Michaelson]

I've read this entire string, and had to chuckle to myself. I, too, was one of the guys that girls went out with on a couple of dates, but stopped because 'I was to nice!' They definitely wanted me as a friend, but that was all.[huh]

When I dated my wife, we dated for about 6 months before we decided to tie the knot. After a few years had passed after getting married, I asked her why she chose me. She said, 'Because you are so nice. You open doors for me. You think of me first. Not many guys out there would even think to do that!"

So, as we approach our 31st year of marriage, here's one 'nice guy' that finished FIRST, thank you very much!lol

Regards! Michaelson