how to get rid of reverse taper on my Squatter?

[Blackthorn]

I recently got an Akubra Squatter and I like it a lot, but no matter how I bash it, and then rebash it, it has a reverse taper that I hate. I want the sides to go straight up, or if not that, then taper a bit inward at the top. I can't seem to make it do that, but I know lots of you can tell me how to accomplish this.

 

[Chuck Bobuck]

Blackthorn, what bash do you have on the top? Is it a centerdent or diamond? Centerdent should bring the sides toward the top.

 

[Yeps]

That is an interesting specimen there. Did you trim it? Because I don't see a bound edge.

Anyway, about the bulbousness, I think a deep centerdent should help and try moving the pinches a little further back, more like side dents. That tends to increase perceived taper as well.

 

[Blackthorn]

Chuck, it is indeed a center dent but still has that mushroom look.

Yeps, I had the brim trimmed half an inch. I didn't like that 3 inch brim.

I'll go take another pic, from higher, and try to show you how it looks from up above. And how do you make a "deeper" centerdent, since it can only go as deep as my head? This has confused me for a long time, having heard that expression a lot.

 

[Fatdutchman]

What is wrong with you????? That is why I loved my Squatter so much! It came with the most magnificent bulbous shape!!!

 

[Blackthorn]

Here is a pic to see if this makes the situation any clearer for those of you trying to help me understand:

 

[Blackthorn]

What is wrong with you????? That is why I loved my Squatter so much! It came with the most magnificent bulbous shape!!!

Yours still measures the same, Fatdutchman. My actions didn't shrink your brim.

 

[Fatdutchman]

Actually, mine has shrunk quite a bit in the past few years. I need to get it blocked back out again.

 

[monbla256]

Blackthorn,
Here's my Squatter with it's modified center dent/ front pinch crease. From what I can tell, this hat has NO taper in it's blocking which may be why you can not achieve what you want. I noticed that your center dent is rather shallow and the front pintches are what i would call "shallow" as far as front/back length. As you can see, my "ceneter dent" is kind of a cross btwn a teardrop and a true center dent but it is deeper than yours and my front pintches extend PAST the bow front to back. This seems to keep everything "straighter" up/down which I like. Here's my pics:

 

[Blackthorn]

Monbla256, this helps a lot, thanks! Your pics show exactly the look I'm trying to achieve. Those are excellent angles, showing what I need to know. And your explanation helps a lot, thanks! There is hope for my Squatter!

 

[monbla256]

Your welcome, I hope it works for you. BTW, cutting that brim down truly changes the look of the Squatter I do have the added help of a pro hat steamer I picked up at a closing Wormser hat shop about 15 years ago ( put's out ALOT of concentraded steam as compared to a tea kettle ) And I got the center crease done and set over a 2 day period BEFORE I moved to the front pinches and since then it has gone thru 2 sessions of pouring rain to get everything "just right " Go for it !!

 

[Blackthorn]

Your welcome, I hope it works for you. BTW, cutting that brim down truly changes the look of the Squatter I do have the added help of a pro hat steamer I picked up at a closing Wormser hat shop about 15 years ago ( put's out ALOT of concentraded steam as compared to a tea kettle ) And I got the center crease done and set over a 2 day period BEFORE I moved to the front pinches and since then it has gone thru 2 sessions of pouring rain to get everything "just right " Go for it !!

Wow, 2 days! I guess for one thing I need to be more patient, but also that's a good idea about the pro hat steamer. I think it's time I began looking at them.

Also I hadn't thought of doing it in stages. Man, you've done this a lot, monbla256! I'm still a newbie, even after a year and a half of hat collecting.

 

[monbla256]

Wow, 2 days! I guess for one thing I need to be more patient, but also that's a good idea about the pro hat steamer. I think it's time I began looking at them.

Also I hadn't thought of doing it in stages. Man, you've done this a lot, monbla256! I'm still a newbie, even after a year and a half of hat collecting.

Though I have 7 hats, I'm not a true "collector" as many here are. I have worn felt hats since I got my first when I was 10 yo ( makes that 51 years ago , my how time flies ) and most of the pros in the hat business would do all of this with much more ease than I do at one session I'm sure ( they do at Peters Bros for sure) . But I don't mind taking my time as I will tweak that center dent sometimes before I move to the front pinches. And for me, having the center /top part of the crease done and sort of "fixed" allows me to get the next part the way I want it easier. And I do the final "setting" of the crease after it has gotten good and wet from a couple of good wearings in a solid down pour Just the system I have evolved over the years for me

 

[Blackthorn]

Though I have 7 hats, I'm not a true "collector" as many here are. I have worn felt hats since I got my first when I was 10 yo ( makes that 51 years ago , my how time flies ) and most of the pros in the hat business would do all of this with much more ease than I do at one session I'm sure ( they do at Peters Bros for sure) . But I don't mind taking my time as I will tweak that center dent sometimes before I move to the front pinches. And for me, having the center /top part of the crease done and sort of "fixed" allows me to get the next part the way I want it easier. And I do the final "setting" of the crease after it has gotten good and wet from a couple of good wearings in a solid down pour Just the system I have evolved over the years for me

It makes a lot of sense. I have learned a lot this afternoon.

 

[Dewhurst]

Blackthorn, I can be of no real help here but I just HAD to make a comment! The only way I have ever changed the taper on any of my felt hats is through the agency of rain and lots of sweat followed by dry periods. Which is really an accident more than anything, and certainly a basically worthless suggestion due to the fact that it is a crapshoot "method", if it even deserves as much ado as all that. Well, there was a massive pot of boiling water incident (oh, and it worked) but it is hardly reproducible and potentially dangerous/it took forever! (Alright, alright, I have changed the amount of taper by making the bash more shallow or vice versa but that can only go so far!!!)

If the hat was just a bit different you could sell it on the Indiana Jones black market as contraband. Those folks are always frothing at the mouth over hats with remarkable bulbousness.

(Do you know... I don't think I ever typed the word "reproducible" before?!?! It looks and feels completely foreign to my fingers...)

(Considering I had nothing to say... a pretty long post...)

 

[jimmy the lid]

Well, here's a different take on what's happening with your hat...

First of all, Blackthorn, I think your hat looks great just the way it is. The phenomenon you are referring to as "reverse taper", in my view, doesn't detract a whit from the overall look. (Incidentally, I only see it happening very slightly on one side of your hat in the photos). In fact, this phenomenon isn't necessarily uncommon. That being said, it's your lid, so it's up to you to decide how you want it to look.

Moving on...

Your hat probably started out with completely straight sides, as other Squatter owners here will attest. So, the phenomenon of the sides flaring out just a bit close to the sweatband is most likely caused by the fact that the sweat may have shrunk just a tad, thereby pulling things in a bit tighter at the bottom of the hat. You are not going to be able to fix that without re-blocking -- although you may be able to camouflage it a bit by playing with the treatment of the side dents. But -- don't expect to necessarily get rid of it completely.

While I'm at it, there are also a couple more ways that this flaring can occur. First, if you are a long oval, the fact that your head stretches the front and back out when the the hat is on your noggin may cause the sides of the hat to draw in slightly close to the sweat -- resulting in the look you are referring to. Additionally, this phenomenon can also occur during the creasing process, if too much pressure is applied to the top of the crown as the height is being established -- the downward force can serve to flare out the sides (particularly if they have been steamed or wetted at the time).

I say all of this because, once you understand what's causing the flaring, you can have a more realistic view of what can and can't be done to "cure" it. In your case, you might try some different approaches with the side dents to see if the overall look is more to your liking.

That being said, I don't think the very slight flaring on your lid detracts from the overall look (but, hey -- that's just me...)

Good luck!

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Blackthorn]

Blackthorn, I can be of no real help here but I just HAD to make a comment! The only way I have ever changed the taper on any of my felt hats is through the agency of rain and lots of sweat followed by dry periods. Which is really an accident more than anything, and certainly a basically worthless suggestion due to the fact that it is a crapshoot "method", if it even deserves as much ado as all that. Well, there was a massive pot of boiling water incident (oh, and it worked) but it is hardly reproducible and potentially dangerous/it took forever! (Alright, alright, I have changed the amount of taper by making the bash more shallow or vice versa but that can only go so far!!!)

If the hat was just a bit different you could sell it on the Indiana Jones black market as contraband. Those folks are always frothing at the mouth over hats with remarkable bulbousness.

(Do you know... I don't think I ever typed the word "reproducible" before?!?! It looks and feels completely foreign to my fingers...)

I know how you feel, I've never typed "bulbousness"...oops, there I went typing it! But that was the first time.

(Considering I had nothing to say... a pretty long post...)

Well, thanks for all the info, Dewhurst. I finally got it right, after Monbla's help. I wet it, then reshaped the pinch back further and Voila! It went into the shape I thought it should be.

 

[Blackthorn]

Well, here's a different take on what's happening with your hat...

First of all, Blackthorn, I think your hat looks great just the way it is. The phenomenon you are referring to as "reverse taper", in my view, doesn't detract a whit from the overall look. (Incidentally, I only see it happening very slightly on one side of your hat in the photos). In fact, this phenomenon isn't necessarily uncommon. That being said, it's your lid, so it's up to you to decide how you want it to look.

This is a very interesting and helpful post, JTL, thanks. I had thought that a "normal" hat should either go straight up or slightly taper inward, so this is new territory for me. I might should have left it alone, but didn't see your post until I had already reshaped it. I was probably being overcritical of the "reverse" appearance. I'm glad to find out it's not uncommon. I thought it was. I'll be more relaxed about it in the future. Your opinion carries a lot of weight in my book, so thanks for addressing this issue for me.

Moving on...

Your hat probably started out with completely straight sides, as other Squatter owners here will attest. So, the phenomenon of the sides flaring out just a bit close to the sweatband is most likely caused by the fact that the sweat may have shrunk just a tad, thereby pulling things in a bit tighter at the bottom of the hat. You are not going to be able to fix that without re-blocking -- although you may be able to camouflage it a bit by playing with the treatment of the side dents. But -- don't expect to necessarily get rid of it completely.

I never thought of any of that before. This all makes sense.

While I'm at it, there are also a couple more ways that this flaring can occur. First, if you are a long oval, the fact that your head stretches the front and back out when the the hat is on your noggin may cause the sides of the hat to draw in slightly close to the sweat -- resulting in the look you are referring to. Additionally, this phenomenon can also occur during the creasing process, if too much pressure is applied to the top of the crown as the height is being established -- the downward force can serve to flare out the sides (particularly if they have been steamed or wetted at the time).

I say all of this because, once you understand what's causing the flaring, you can have a more realistic view of what can and can't be done to "cure" it. In your case, you might try some different approaches with the side dents to see if the overall look is more to your liking.

That being said, I don't think the very slight flaring on your lid detracts from the overall look (but, hey -- that's just me...)

Good luck!

Cheers,
JtL

This helped my understanding a lot, JtL, thanks!

 

[Hercule]

A deeper dent might bring in the flare abit, but other than that it just might be a hopeless case. That being said, send it to me for disposal. Its just another service I'm more than glad to offer!

 

[Blackthorn]

I have the hat looking good now, but I'm always puzzled when someone says "deeper dent." There's a head inside that hat, which means the dent can only go that deep. ????? I know, maybe you can build the sides higher, but again, there's only so much felt to work with, then you just can't get any higher.