How long does the modern Stetson/HatCo hat last, feasibly?

[jamespowers]

What, they're still using Mercury? That's odd, but of course now we're using it in light bulbs because it's more green...

What is that stuff in the powder anyway? It almost certainly isn't Mercury anymore. Bwahahahahahahha.

Later

No, they stopped using mercury long ago. lol I just wouldn't want that stuff in my mouth. Even lampblack may just be mostly soot but I don't want to lick it.
I imagine what they use must be something like chalk with the way it poofs off the hat when you brush it. [huh]

 

[BanjoMerlin]

From David Morgan: Akubra's take on powdering to even out the colors - they don't bother.

"An interesting difference between Akubras and American hats is that Akubra does not use hat powders to correct or even out the colors of the felt in their hats. The felt is dyed to produce the color required. The dyeing will leave slight variations in the final color of the felt. These variations are subtle, but in a manner similar to the subtle variations found in good leather, enhancing the character of the felt as a natural material. "

 

[Undertow]

I have an idea for Stetson: make a high quality wool hat instead of a felt hat with powder that covers up the bad quality.

Oh, you mean like this:
Stetson Cashmere Pisa

or
Stetson Cashmere Versailles

 

[jamespowers]

From David Morgan: Akubra's take on powdering to even out the colors - they don't bother.

"An interesting difference between Akubras and American hats is that Akubra does not use hat powders to correct or even out the colors of the felt in their hats. The felt is dyed to produce the color required. The dyeing will leave slight variations in the final color of the felt. "

Sounds like excuse making to me.
I can see other products using that line:
"The paint will leave slight variations in the final color of the Toyota. These variations are subtle, but in a manner similar to the subtle variations found in good leather, enhancing the character of the vehicle."
Riiiiggghhht. lol
As a custom hatter if they use powders on their bodies.

 

[BanjoMerlin]

Last time I checked, Toyotas are not made of fur.

 

[carldelo]

Well, very expensive silk clothing usually carries a disclaimer about color variations. Wool takes dye better than silk, so no disclaimers are needed. Car paint is obviously a monolithic overcoating, as opposed to a dying process, so the comparison of a hat to a car finish is a little silly.

From all the posts I've read on the lounge bemoaning the quality of Stetsons, it seems the issue of powdering was more severe years ago, and has abated for the most part. I have four modern Stetsons, from 1 to 5 years old, and none have had a color problem. I have two Royal quality, one of which had somewhat uneven coloring when I bought it, but which has not gotten worse. The other Royal hat and two Sovereigns are fine. They soften up with time and are all nice lids. The oldest one, with an unbound brim, has some slight rippling due to my careless treatment, but is fixable with the occasional jet of steam and reshaping.

 

[jamespowers]

Last time I checked, Toyotas are not made of fur.

Ok then replace it with:
The fur will leave slight variations in the final color of the mink coat. These variations are subtle, but in a manner similar to the subtle variations found in good leather, enhancing the character of the coat."

or

The cashmere will leave slight variations in the final color of the sweater. These variations are subtle, but in a manner similar to the subtle variations found in good leather, enhancing the character of the sweater.
Riiiiggghhht. lol
I could go on and on. There are no excuses. The quality just isn't there if they have to use powder. If they want to be honest then don't use the powder like Akubra and see what customers think of the result. [huh]

 

[jamespowers]

From all the posts I've read on the lounge bemoaning the quality of Stetsons, it seems the issue of powdering was more severe years ago, and has abated for the most part. I have four modern Stetsons, from 1 to 5 years old, and none have had a color problem. I have two Royal quality, one of which had somewhat uneven coloring when I bought it, but which has not gotten worse. The other Royal hat and two Sovereigns are fine. They soften up with time and are all nice lids. The oldest one, with an unbound brim, has some slight rippling due to my careless treatment, but is fixable with the occasional jet of steam and reshaping.

You just read a previous post about a hat purchased last year being rife with powder---so muchy so that it stuck to his hands and stained his pants as well.:eusa_doh:
Buy what you want but let others be well informed. [huh]

 

[Bebop]

When all is said and done, there are those that like only certain brands and usually, "if it's not a vintage, it has to be custom made for me to wear it", and there are those that are willing to take a chance on any brand because they just like hats.......... powder or no powder. I think there is room for all hats on my hat rack.

 

[BanjoMerlin]

I could go on and on. There are no excuses. The quality just isn't there if they have to use powder. If they want to be honest then don't use the powder like Akubra and see what customers think of the result. [huh]

I'm not sure I understand your hangup on "quality." Are you saying that Stetson should only make hats of one level of quality and that level should be absolute best? It would be easy to see what Stetson's product line would be - just take a catalog and delete everything that isn't 100X or better.

Comparing rabbit fur with mink and cashmere is kind of pushing it, don't you think?

 

[carldelo]

You just read a previous post about a hat purchased last year being rife with powder---so muchy so that it stuck to his hands and stained his pants as well.:eusa_doh:
Buy what you want but let others be well informed. [huh]

Fair enough about the newly purchased Stetson with a powdery problem. Was it newly manufactured or old stock? We don't know. But let's say it was newly produced and Stetson sold a batch of hats made from blotchy blanks, and in this case you are correct. OK, that's one anecdote. To me it seemed there were more anecdotes in the past, although often it appeared to be a few anecdotes repeated continuously by a few loungers who really dislike Stetson. I understand being angry about buying a bad hat, but a whole company should not have to go under the bus for that.

You also don't like Akubra's disclaimer about color variations in lieu of powdering hats, so they're not good enough either. So what is your point exactly? All modern hats are crap? Buy only custom? Buy only vintage?

 

[hasselhoff]

I'm not sure I understand your hangup on "quality." Are you saying that Stetson should only make hats of one level of quality and that level should be absolute best? It would be easy to see what Stetson's product line would be - just take a catalog and delete everything that isn't 100X or better.

Comparing rabbit fur with mink and cashmere is kind of pushing it, don't you think?

Is there a difference in the powder-thing on the hats if it's wool or fur? Are powders used on both hats?... I'm looking for buying a Stetson Selby or a Dobbs Dutton, knowing it's both HatCo hats will there be issues with powder...?

 

[Undertow]

I think the first problem regarding this thread is the question being raised, "How long does a modern Stetson hat last? There's no quantifiable evidence for an answer. There's no research on the topic, nor will there be, which says Stetsons made after 1970 will last X years. Nor is there research regarding any brand that says Brand X will last Y years. If you take a wool costume fedora and pay $3 for it, you should assume it won't last longer than a day in the rain - but there's not going to be a scientific journal detailing a broad range of results. Thus, your answer can really only rely on anecdotal evidence (which happens to be coming from both enthusiasts and hat makers - don't get much better than that). Fact is, Stetson mass produces men's hats and some hats last anywhere from 1-100 years, or longer. Is that the answer?

The second problem is folks seem to be getting bent out of shape about the issues others are having with modern Stetsons. I own nine, and as I mentioned, only one had a powdering issue. Others have owned hats that were so bad, powder came off all over their hands and stained their clothes. I bet someone has owned one that caught fire in the middle of a rain storm. So what? If you ask a question that relies on personal experiences and opinions, you're bound to get some variation.

And finally, there's the issue of quality; but quality in what regard? I happen to agree with JP on this one. If we're talking about "quality" of materials, there's no answer to that because it's not a question. Stetson makes wool hats, fur felts, straws, etc. That's a variation of material and yes, there should be variations of material (1x, 5x, 50x or 100x - Beaver, Beaver/Rabbit, Rabbit, Wool). However, if we're talking about QUALITY, as in how well it's made with the given materials, then we most certainly should hold Stetson, HatCo, etc. to a high standard.

If Stetson is making fine dress hats and they want people to pay a premium for their efforts, Stetson should darn well ensure their Rabbit/Beaver blend is up to snuff. If the colors run, the powder falls, the felt grows weak and floppy and the sweat band rots - it's a piece of junk no matter what it's made from. If Stetson takes their time and puts together the same hat, it's evenly colored and it holds up in a storm, etc. then you've got good quality. Thus, if Stetson's Royal is junk and their Imperial Velour Finish is tops, the company should work to close the gap.

So to answer Banjo, yes, Stetson should make ONE LEVEL OF QUALITY hat, and that should be the BEST. Period. They should make the best straws, the best felts, the best wools; the best Royals, the best Imperials, the best Cashmeres, etc. If they do not, or cannot, or will not, then caveat emptor. [huh] And that doesn't mean you can't find one that suits you well - it means you might find one that doesn't suit you well.

 

[Bebop]

I find that when it comes to modern Stetsons, many have an axe to grind and it may be a good idea to take that into consideration when looking for an answer like the one the op posed. You have to take comments from biased sources (like hat makers and people blinded by a little knowledge and "my friend told me they are crap") with a grain of salt, when it comes to answering "How long does a modern Stetson last". As I posted earlier, the only credible answer is "time will tell". You really can't answer how long a vintage Stetson will last either.

 

[BanjoMerlin]

I submit that Stetson does indeed make the BEST quality hats of each level that can be made. It is up to the buyer to decide whether he can afford to pay for the BEST quality level or if he can only afford something of a lower price. If the buyer is expecting the same quality from a factory-made hat that would be found in a hat made by an individual craftsman then he will almost certainly be disappointed.

That same person will also be disappointed that his new Toyota isn't a Rolls Royce.

 

[BanjoMerlin]

But to really answer the original question:

Look at the video of the HATCO factory making Stetson hats. They are using essentially the same equipment, methods and materials today that were being used 50 years ago. The hats being produced today will last just as long as those hats did, somewhere between a week and a century.

 

[Art Fawcett]

I find that when it comes to modern Stetsons, many have an axe to grind and it may be a good idea to take that into consideration when looking for an answer like the one the op posed. You have to take comments from biased sources (like hat makers and people blinded by a little knowledge and "my friend told me they are crap") with a grain of salt, when it comes to answering "How long does a modern Stetson last". As I posted earlier, the only credible answer is "time will tell". You really can't answer how long a vintage Stetson will last either.

At what point did factual information become "biased sources" Bebop? Please note that I have made only one post in this thread till now and it was ONLY addressed to the powdering that you apparently DON'T believe because you DIDN'T see it on a video. Why, just because I run into it on a weekly basis doesn't make it true. Of course not, there are no videos of my shop so it just CAN'T be true right? I'm just here trying to sell my products by bashing others, right? Isn't that where you are coming from?

Frankly gentleman I don't give a damn if Stetson made them out of pig scat. They are responsible for what they make just like I am, Optimo is, Mike Moore is, TonyB is, Beaver Brand is, Biltmore is . I am not here to defend OR demand answers. I have added to this thread simply to try to give accurate information and don't believe that by offering it I am being "biased". So, could you please dump the insulting , arrogant attitude Bebop? I have no idea what axe you have to grind with me and frankly don't care. I would just like it to stop.

 

[jlee562]

Fair enough about the newly purchased Stetson with a powdery problem. Was it newly manufactured or old stock? We don't know. But let's say it was newly produced and Stetson sold a batch of hats made from blotchy blanks, and in this case you are correct. OK, that's one anecdote. To me it seemed there were more anecdotes in the past, although often it appeared to be a few anecdotes repeated continuously by a few loungers who really dislike Stetson. I understand being angry about buying a bad hat, but a whole company should not have to go under the bus for that.

You also don't like Akubra's disclaimer about color variations in lieu of powdering hats, so they're not good enough either. So what is your point exactly? All modern hats are crap? Buy only custom? Buy only vintage?

Can you decode Stetson's label codes? because I happen to have it right in front of me

TF32012370.TMPL--R

Purchased October of last year from Hat Guys in Oakland. I can't imagine the stock would have been too old, because that's one of busiest hat stores in the bay area.

There wasn't a whole lot of color that came off the hat, but it definitely DID come off.

 

[frussell]

Wow, getting hot in here. I got the impression that Bebop was referring to the Shortyshattery link he referred to earlier in the thread regarding hatmakers, but I might be wrong. One thing I find interesting is that I've never had any recent Stetson western hats run when wet. All my western hats have been worn in the rain, silverbelly, tan and black, and I've never had this issue with them or my HatCo Resistols. I do remember being in a service fraternity at UT Austin in the 80s where we all had to wear chaps and black western hats with a white shirt to football games. We all got our hats from a local legendary hatter, and were assured they were of the highest quality. About 20 of us got a nasty surprise at a rainy OU-UT game in Dallas when our high quality black hats ran black liquid all over our previously spotless starched white shirts. I'm not talking about a little leakage, but like someone threw a bottle of grey ink on you. Many had black dye running down their faces and necks. I know those weren't Stetsons. Haven't taken any of my Stetson dress hats out in the rain yet, but they don't really make any that fit my shape requirements, other than my Nostalgia, which did not shed color when I wet-bashed it. Frank

 

[Undertow]

...You have to take comments from biased sources (like hat makers and people blinded by a little knowledge and "my friend told me they are crap") with a grain of salt, when it comes to answering "How long does a modern Stetson last"...

Incredible! Let me get this straight - I should take anything a hat maker says about modern Stetsons with a grain of salt? lol Well, with that line of logic, I might as well not bother consult a mechanic about my car and eschew my doctor's biased opinions about my health. :eusa_doh: If you're simply saying everyone is biased because no one is objective, then we may as well eliminate scientists, scientific data, and for that matter, ALL HUMAN KNOWLEDGE. Thus, the answer to the question "How long will a modern Stetson last?" is "infinity" because we certainly can't prove anything, nor disprove anything. shakeshead

I submit that Stetson does indeed make the BEST quality hats of each level that can be made. It is up to the buyer to decide whether he can afford to pay for the BEST quality level or if he can only afford something of a lower price. If the buyer is expecting the same quality from a factory-made hat that would be found in a hat made by an individual craftsman then he will almost certainly be disappointed.

That same person will also be disappointed that his new Toyota isn't a Rolls Royce.

In one sense, I agree here - a Toy Yoda isn't a Rolls.

That aside, I would say we DO have anecdotal evidence that hats can be made without powder at a reasonable price, i.e. Akubra (or at least that's what I'm hearing from previous posts). If Akubra truly doesn't use powder to even colors, and their colors are pleasingly even without it, and their hats are priced similar to Stetsons, and the quality of the materials are also on par, then...one might say an Akubra is of better quality than Stetson, and thus Stetson is not the best quality. [huh]

And if Stetson's quality is lacking - perhaps Stetson should improve their overall quality...

If I've said this once, I've said it one hundred times - I've got no axe to grind with Stetson, I own 9 modern Stetsons and only ONE has a powder issue. But if there's a 11% chance someone is going to get a powdery hat - and that person asks me how long that hat will last off the shelf, I'm gonna give it to them straight. [huh]