How do you grade Stetson quality?

[Donato]

When browsing through the Stetson inventory, I noticed that they grade the quality of their fedoras, i.e., Imperial, Sovereign, etc. As a newbie, I do not know what these grades mean. Which one is considered the best to the lowest quality? Those names are a bit misleading because they all sound rather grand. Thanks.

 

[NonEntity]

Look at the price points to discern what Stetson markets various lines (Sovereign, Imperial, etc.) as to quality level.

In actuality, neither the name of the line nor the number of "Xs" is a reliable indicator of Stetson quality--or lack thereof--as the company is not consistent from year to year in the use of its terms, or maybe even within the same year.

Bottom line: They are meaningless.

If you want a Stetson, it's best to go to a retail store to carefully look and feel the ones you like, then buy it there, as the identical model hat offered elswhere will not necessarily be the same.

I'm no Stetson expert, but I've yet to try a modern-made one that was not relatively stiff, heavy, and expensive when compared to Akubras.

 

[Donato]

OK, thanks for a helpful reply.

 

[J.T.Marcus]

They once called their really high quality hat "THE STANDARD." To us, today, that sounds like "average," or "common." However, it was meant to be the "standard" by which other hats would be measured.

 

[Duck]

A lot of people really denounce the quality of the new Stetsons, however I bought 2 Stetsons at the outlet store when I was in Dallas, and the hats are great!!! I love them! The felt is very soft and smooth, not stiff and hard like their western hats.[huh]

 

[tinmanzzz]

A Really,Really Good Question

Ok you Dr's of Hat Lore. Which is Better???
Vintage (pre 60's)
Royal Deluxe, Stetson 25, 5XXXXX ??
or are they the same????
The Public Wants to Know !!!!!!!! :rage:

 

[Spellflower]

I'm a long way from finishing my dissertation, but based on my readings on the Lounge, I doubt you'll find many who would favor a modern Stetson of any X over a vintage one with the same attributes. Maybe the 100% beaver hat J.T. has shown off, but you'd have to ask him. Certainly modern Stetsons might not all be crap, but even at their best, I doubt they compare to their vintage counterparts.

 

[Donato]

I'm a long way from finishing my dissertation, but based on my readings on the Lounge, I doubt you'll find many who would favor a modern Stetson of any X over a vintage one with the same attributes. Maybe the 100% beaver hat J.T. has shown off, but you'd have to ask him. Certainly modern Stetsons might not all be crap, but even at their best, I doubt they compare to their vintage counterparts.

Can someone please explain to me why this is so about the modern Stetsons? What exactly has changed since the days of the vintage Stetsons? I have one Stetson Sutley and I like it very much. I have been tempted lately to purchase a Stetson Windham. I also have two Akubras and I like them too, but I am too new in this field to really know or tell the difference in quality between them. I am a student willing to learn. :eusa_doh: Thanks.

 

[jimmy the lid]

A lot of people really denounce the quality of the new Stetsons, however I bought 2 Stetsons at the outlet store when I was in Dallas, and the hats are great!!! I love them! The felt is very soft and smooth, not stiff and hard like their western hats.[huh]

Sometimes it seems that a lot of the rap on new Stetsons seems to be anecdotal. In all fairness, I think posts like this one from Duck are the most useful -- an opinion from someone who owns some recently purchased Stetsons and who can compare them to some of the vintage lids that he owns. Thanks, Duck!

Cheers,
JtL

 

[kenji]

I am a hat preschooler, but one big difference I noticed between my Stetson cowboy hat and Akubra fedora is the softness of the felt. I'm not sure is this is just a western vs. fedora thing, but I sure prefer the Akubra. The material is very light and supple and sits better on my head. The stetson feels a bit like a piece of fuzzy cardboard.

 

[Duck]

Sometimes it seems that a lot of the rap on new Stetsons seems to be anecdotal. In all fairness, I think posts like this one from Duck are the most useful -- an opinion from someone who owns some recently purchased Stetsons and who can compare them to some of the vintage lids that he owns. Thanks, Duck!

Cheers,
JtL

Thanks, Jimmy.

 

[Spellflower]

Can someone please explain to me why this is so about the modern Stetsons?

Again, I'm no expert: I have some experience with both vintage and modern hats, but nothing compared to some of the guys in this joint, and a lot of what I know I gleaned from them, but...

Most hats currently on the market for under $300 have very low beaver fur content compared with vintage hats. Mo' beaver = mo' better in a fedora, because it makes a felt that is denser and better at holding its shape and repelling moisture.

Also, modern Stetsons are chock-full-o stiffener, making them very difficult to reshape to one's own preferences, whereas vintage hats were designed to be shaped by the wearer. The stiffener gives them a nice feel when they are new, but many have reported problems when it washes out, and brings the dye with it. This simply does not happen with a vintage Stetson, or if it does, I've yet to read anyone post about it.

 

[Spellflower]

Sometimes it seems that a lot of the rap on new Stetsons seems to be anecdotal.
JtL

Jimmy, all the rap on Stetsons, good or bad, is anecdotal, including Duck's. How could you have any other kind, other than by putting a vintage hat and a modern hat through controlled laboratory testing designed to simulate extended wear in different environments? Even then, the variability of hats would require you to repeat the test with hundreds of hats in order to get statistically valid results. This, of course, would be a stupid waste of resources.

And so we're left with anecdotal evidence as our only evidence. That doesn't make it invalid, however. Subjective reviews can give prospective buyers clues about what their experience may be, but the old saying, "your mileage may vary" is in effect.

Some important considerations when reading reviews:

Different people have different ideas of what makes a good hat. Some like a stiff felt, others like their hats floppy. A review with a lot of details will help you figure out how you will react to a particular hat. Just because the reviewer didn't like his tapered Borsalino, doesn't mean a taper fan won't.

As you said, it's very helpful to have a review from someone who has experienced both modern and vintage hats. A reviewer may say that his new Stetson is the best hat he's ever owned, but that doesn't mean a lot if he's never owned anything else.

Many reviews are really just first impressions, and may not reflect the long term experience of wearing the hat. A reviewer may have a very good experience with a hat for a week, and then wirte a review, but this doesn't mean the hat won't fall apart after a year.

Quality often varies even within products made in the same factory. Just like there are lemon cars, there are lemon hats. Some people report having worn Stetson Chathams in the rain repeatedly without problems, while others say their Chathams tapered and stained their heads. All of them could be telling the truth.

Finally, it is important to make up one's own mind, and to take everything one reads on the internet with a grain of salt. A few bad reviews can start a rumor avalanche based more on hearsay than actual experience with a product. On the other hand, if a lot of people are reporting problems with one product, and none with another, odds are you're taking a bigger risk on the former.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Spellflower --

Two things:

First, my bad. I should have said "second-hand" instead of anecdotal. You're absolutely right about that.

Secondly, I hope you didn't take my post to be directed at you in any way. It certainly wasn't intended in that way.

My real point is that, as a general matter, some of the negative reaction to modern Stetsons isn't necessarily based on the latest information from actual owners. I'm always curious to hear what the most recent intelligence is from Loungers who have recent experience with a modern Stetson and who can offer a comparison to some of their vintage lids.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Spellflower]

Jimmy- no offense taken.

I'm just trying to clarify terms. And I completely agree that there is a phenomenon in which negative opinions get parroted, and then become common wisdom even when they're based mainly on hearsay.

I've probably been guilty of this myself at times. Writing my post, I was able to organize some ideas about how not to fall into this trap, and how to get the most out of reviews.

And of course, my (vintage Stetson) hat's off to guys like Duck who buy modern Stetsons and report back on how they're holding up. The more people who do this, the more accurate a picture of Stetson quality we'll have.

 

[Justdog]

Stetson prices

When browsing through the Stetson inventory, I noticed that they grade the quality of their fedoras, i.e., Imperial, Sovereign, etc. As a newbie, I do not know what these grades mean. Which one is considered the best to the lowest quality? Those names are a bit misleading because they all sound rather grand. Thanks.

Thought there was a vintage price thread about this here somewhere but I will insert this here while I search for a closer thread.

Interestingly it does not list a 100 Stet by beaver content nor mention it at all as a 10x So the theory that its price point is related to finish holds true it would seem.

 

[Lefty]

To me, this is one of the better threads on the Lounge.

 

[Justdog]

Yes

To me, this is one of the better threads on the Lounge.

Yes that was the one I was looking for:cheers1:

 

[Inusuit]

Here's another anecdote.

I bought a new Stetson Open Road in about 1975. It was an excellent hat, I used it hard and put it away wet. When it came time in 1990 to buy a hat that was more acceptable in polite company, I went to look for another OR. As reported by others on the forum, quality was pathetic. Stiff, powdery, and obvious flaws in the felt. I then ordered my first Akubra Squatter. Recently I got nostalgic for another OR. We have several western stores in town but none carred the OR. Stetson "cowboy" styles seemed to be reasonable quality, but were very stiff and of mediocre quality. I found a vintage in my size by advertising in the local classified, and bought a second one in the Forum Classifieds. (Thanks, Tom!) Both of these hats are very good quality, soft, flexible, easily styled with a little steam. Just my experience.

 

[zetwal]

Thanks Lefty for pointing us to the other think tank thread. It clarifies and even answers questions that I brought up in my recent and poorly placed post about my newly found 7X. I will enjoy following think tank and related threads as they develop.