How do you decide when it's time to sell a jacket?

[Superfluous]

Of course there are artistic components to the jackets we exalt here. Many of the details we discuss here are purely artistic in nature, including leather colors/shades, leather grain and patina, stitch color, top stitching, stitching symmetry, liner styles (solid versus patterned liners), patches, labels (including use of original manufacturer labels), collar angles, paintings on the back of jackets, etching on snaps, accuracy of the reproduction (compared to the original/vintage jacket), zipper piping, etc. Other details have both artistic and functional components (e.g., interior pockets and whether the pocket can be seen from the outside). Our obsession with the perfect fit is far more about art than function. Frankly, many of the ostensibly functional components of jackets take on artistic overlays here, and oftentimes the art dominates the function (e.g., zipper styles, sizes and pulls, pocket placement, gussets, jacket length, sleeve length, etc.). Even the weights of the different leathers have artistic implications (the mid-weight leathers often drape better).

At the end of the day, what is the single most important factor that determines whether a jacket is a success or not? The fit! How does the jacket look when worn. That’s art. When was the last time someone posted here that their jacket fits perfectly and they love the look of the jacket, but they are returning/selling it because it is not sufficiently functional? Its certainly possible, but a rare occurrence. The vast majority of the time, we return/sell jackets because they do not fit well. Alternatively, over time we lose interest in the style of the jacket. In both instances, the decision to sell is driven by artistic considerations.

Hookless zippers are a perfect example of art dominating functionality. Hookless zippers are a huge pain in the ass, and totally non-functional. Yet, many here exalt hookless zippers because of their inspirational connection to the original/vintage jackets upon which our reproductions are based. Many of the original pocket designs were intended for items that very few carry today (e.g., maps, guns, etc.). Yet, jackets continue to incorporate the original pocket design elements for artistic reasons.

Functionality remains a relevant and important consideration. That said, art is a major focus of this community.

 

[Fanch]

Very intuitive and well said @Superfluous ^^^

 

[SpeedRcrX]

OMG [emoji33] it's like going back in time... 20 year ago I pass the "baccalauréat" and what is art ? was the question asked in my philosophy test....

Errr I don't have good memories of my philosophy classes...

 

[Monitor]

Coincidentally, jackets that can be considered art are the ones in the "Just when you thought you had seen it all . . ." thread. Just sayin'.

 

[ton312]

Coincidentally, jackets that can be considered art are the ones in the "Just when you thought you had seen it all . . ." thread. Just sayin'.

Nobody said art had to be pretty

 

[Sloan1874]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and all that... I do think that the best of what we see on the Lounge moves into the realm of art, btw. Otherwise why would we bother? It'd be cheaper, and much less time consuming, to pick up a high street jacket, but we're looking for something 'more' than that.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

IMO a neat leather jacket can easily be considered a work of art with a slightly sculptured fit, perhaps custom pleats, plus possibly more elaborate stitching, and maybe unique pocket placement. Some can be more artsy than others such as those patterned with a sunburst back or a weatherbeatened dyed and tanned rustic hide or even a simpler design with unusual straps, cuffs or collars.
HD

 

[Seb Lucas]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and all that... I do think that the best of what we see on the Lounge moves into the realm of art, btw. Otherwise why would we bother? It'd be cheaper and much less time consumer, to pick up a high street jacket, but we're looking something 'more' than that.

You see, I dont think art comes into this. We like well-made, nicely designed, hand crafted items. Isn't that enough?

 

[zebedee]

In some cases, I reckon collecting art might be cheaper.

 

[Gamma68]

You see, I dont think art comes into this. We like well-made, nicely designed, hand crafted items. Isn't that enough?

Your quote above seems to focus purely on utilitarianism in a jacket. However, it takes some degree of artistic ability to make a "nicely designed" jacket that fits well, particularly if it's hand-crafted.

Think of a custom-tailored jacket or a bespoke suit. Most people who are highly pleased with a custom suit or jacket that fits beautifully will say the tailor is an artisan.

 

[Monitor]

It all comes down to whether craft can be art and the other way around. I believe that while art and craft can simultaneously exist in one form, they can never be synonymous because ultimately one nullifies the other.
I also strongly believe that one is not in any way, shape or form more important than the other and by saying a leather jacket is art is actually harmful toward the hard work and dedication invested into the skill it takes to produce it because due to such distinctions, many people regard art as having a higher status and thus place it above the craft. Which is wrong. Both paths take equal amount of sacrifice but... They're still two distinct paths. Perfect stitching and perfectly matched leather still doesn't make it art. It makes it a fine craft but not art. Distinction has to be drawn somewhere otherwise everything can be everything.

If art is an expression, how can a tailor, who works from a set of patterns from which they cannot deviate even the slightest bit, be called an artist? And what does that make the person who designed the jacket, then? Are they all artists?

 

[Gamma68]

It all comes down to whether craft can be art and the other way around. I believe that while art and craft can simultaneously exist in one form, they can never be synonymous because ultimately one nullifies the other.
I also strongly believe that one is not in any way, shape or form more important than the other and by saying a leather jacket is art is actually harmful toward the hard work and dedication invested into the skill it takes to produce it because due to such distinctions, many people regard art as having a higher status and thus place it above the craft. Which is wrong. Both paths take equal amount of sacrifice but... They're still two distinct paths. Perfect stitching and perfectly matched leather still doesn't make it art. It makes it a fine craft but not art. Distinction has to be drawn somewhere otherwise everything can be everything.

If art is an expression, how can a tailor, who works from a set of patterns from which they cannot deviate even the slightest bit, be called an artist? And what does that make the person who designed the jacket, then? Are they all artists?

There is the phrase "Skilled Artisan." I think it's possible for skill and art to go hand-in-hand. "Craft" and "art" don't need to stand alone. Think of the "Arts & Crafts" movement from the early 20th century. Utilitarian objects (chairs, tables, bookcases, etc.) crafted in an artistic manner.

Tailors can deviate from a set of patterns. Especially a bespoke tailor. Every body shape is different. It takes a skilled artisan of a tailor to custom-make a perfectly fitting jacket for a client.

 

[Sloan1874]

There is the phrase "Skilled Artisan." I think it's possible for skill and art to go hand-in-hand. "Craft" and "art" don't need to stand alone. Think of the "Arts & Crafts" movement from the early 20th century. Utilitarian objects (chairs, tables, bookcases, etc.) crafted in an artistic manner.

Tailors can deviate from a set of patterns. Especially a bespoke tailor. Every body shape is different. It takes a skilled artisan of a tailor to custom-make a perfectly fitting jacket for a client.

This was exactly what passed through my head when I read Seb's reply. It's like the difference between a mass-market produced chair and an original Bauhaus seat: yes, you can sit on both and ultimately the utility is the same, but you know that a helluva lot more time, effort and labour went into the Bauhaus and that's why you find them in design museums.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Girls can't wear leather?

Girls MUST wear leather.

 

[Sir Jacket]

Art, history, individual story, craft: they are inextricably interwoven, each part of what makes these things so alluring (or so we think).

 

[ton312]

For me...I'm fairly certain my latest Aero order will answer the question about a leather jacket Being a work of art.

 

[Plumbline]

This is why I am glad I'm a scientist and engineer .... and I'm still convinced modern repro leather jackets are much more engineered products than Art, this thread just convinces me even more after all they are REPRODUCTIONS and the originals were by and large utilitarian products primarily for function rather than form ... just MHO

 

[ton312]

This is why I am glad I'm a scientist and engineer .... and I'm still convinced modern repro leather jackets are much more engineered products than Art, this thread just convinces me even more after all they are REPRODUCTIONS and the originals were by and large utilitarian products primarily for function rather than form ... just MHO

Is utility and function necessarily divorced from art?

 

[navetsea]

I never see jacket as an object of art, nor a car, or motorcycle, or sword, or wristwatch, leather shoes
sure they can be designed to look pretty or rare, or even one of a kind if you customized them, but they are made to be used, to be worn, until it wears out.

there are art pieces that borrows the shape of motorcycle or jacket, or pen or some other functional objects, but they are clearly designed not to be ever used, and most of them at least to me look stupid, because automatically we relate them to their function, and see how completely useless they are, why bother pose as a functional object why not just make a sculpture or something.

but what do I know.... nowadays half eaten cake can be art too, since lot of people who label themselves as an "artist" are fullofshit

 

[Big J]

I'll dive in!
Sell a jacket? Why would I? I have enough space, and they only depreciate. Why bother? Just buy a new one.

Art? Art is not science. Art cannot be reduced to a set of diagrams and explanations that anyone can follow to produce an 'acceptable' product. Will Lauder knocking out identical wire hangers one after another in prison is not art.

Ken taking one look at my photo and understanding how to alter my jacket for a better fit- that's art. Years of experience and skill, and HEART that enables the creation of something unique.

Art Vs Utility? The two don't preclude each other. Both the Spitfire and Concord are 100% utilitarian designs, but are they not also beautiful works of art?