How do folks react to your hat wearing?

[Matt Crunk]

Just the other day I saw a lady post a houndstooth Bear Bryant-style "derby" for sale on a local facebook auction group. I so wanted to correct her that it was a trilby, which is sort of a stingy-brimmed fedora, NOT a derby. I guess I have truly become a hat snob.

 

[scottyrocks]

Nah, you're not a snob. So many people today have no idea what they're talking about, and worse, don't care.

 

[Liquesence]

Nah, you're not a snob. So many people today have no idea what they're talking about, and worse, don't care.

Agreed. While searching ebay i saw an item unfortunately labeled as a pork pie, which was most certainly NOT a pork pie but a tear drop.

I felt obligated to contact and correct the seller about that listing mishap.

 

[dh66]

Just the other day I saw a lady post a houndstooth Bear Bryant-style "derby" for sale on a local facebook auction group. I so wanted to correct her that it was a trilby, which is sort of a stingy-brimmed fedora, NOT a derby. I guess I have truly become a hat snob.

Haahahahahaha. That's hilarious to me. I live down in Bama and am very familiar with the Bear Bryant hat (no meal of decent bbq would be complete without a picture of the man in that hat somewhere in the establishment) but have never heard of it called a "derby". That seller must not have been from around here. Come to think of it, since that particular headgear is as recognizable as the crown of thorns, maybe thats why my fedora hats never seem to generate that much attention.

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[Zombie_61]

Yups, and that's exactly what my dad did back in the 30s and 40s - and what his dad did before him. You often hear people talk about the fedora as a hat with some kind of special "stylish X-factor". The truth is, that back in the day (20s, 30s and 40s) it was just a piece of necessary clothing - just like a pair of shoes. Any bum wore a fedora, any sharecropper, steelworker and office man wore a fedora...Back then you wore a fedora to blend in...

Surely there must have been men who liked wearing hats and preferred a particular manufacturer's hats or a particular style, but if it was nothing more than de rigueur to other men I can understand why those men would choose almost any hat just to get by. I think of it this way--I couldn't care less about baseball caps, but if it somehow suddenly became mandatory for men to wear them I'd probably buy a case of the cheapest baseball caps I could find just to meet that requirement.

 

[Hal]

...the fedora...back in the day (20s, 30s and 40s) it was just a piece of necessary clothing - just like a pair of shoes... Back then you wore a fedora to blend in - today you wear a fedora to stick out.)

This is a very valid stylistic point, but some men, both "back then" and "today" would wear headgear (including the trilby/fedora - I use this clumsy expression as the words have somewhat different meanings in British and American English) for practical purposes, as protection from cold, rain or sun (at which I have hinted in a previous posting).
Those of us who prefer traditional/classical styles rather than the nondescript casual wear of today will be drawn to the trilby/fedora or the flat cap as appropriate headgear for our other clothes. To me, a man who wears a trilby/fedora with a suit alone does so for stylistic reasons; with an overcoat or raincoat he is more likely to be wearing it for weather protection, will stand out less, and so be less likely to be noticed (for good or ill). The same applies to a Panama or other straw hat in hot sunshine.

 

[facade]

Surely there must have been men who liked wearing hats and preferred a particular manufacturer's hats or a particular style, but if it was nothing more than de rigueur to other men I can understand why those men would choose almost any hat just to get by. I think of it this way--I couldn't care less about baseballs caps, but if it somehow suddenly became mandatory for men to wear them I'd probably buy a case of the cheapest baseball caps I could find just to meet that requirement.

People were no different 'back then' then they are today. Most had their favorite brand. Some just bought whatever was cheapest. Stetson became the #1 seller, but they were never the cheapest. All hats, not just fedoras, were worn to fit in. But men still had their individual tastes and favorites.

 

[facade]

Yups, and that's exactly what my dad did back in the 30s and 40s - and what his dad did before him. You often hear people talk about the fedora as a hat with some kind of special "stylish X-factor". The truth is, that back in the day (20s, 30s and 40s) it was just a piece of necessary clothing - just like a pair of shoes. Any bum wore a fedora, any sharecropper, steelworker and office man wore a fedora. The really high class, stylish hats were stiffs an homburgs.

That said, there's no doubt that the fedora is considered a stylish hat today. Actually, most any hat that vaguely resembles a fedora is considered stylish and gets complimented nowadays. Back then you wore a fedora to blend in - today you wear a fedora to stick out

Naw, very few truly want to stick out. We are a herd animal by our nature. What you have here are people who reject or have been rejected by the main herd and who are forming a sub-herd. That's what this place is. People grouping with those whom they feel a commonality aka a herd.

 

[carranty]

All hats, not just fedoras, were worn to fit in.

That's simply not true. I understand that they were the fashion back then and that some peoples need to fit in would have contributed to their popularity, but that doesn't change the fact that hats are an item of functional clothing. They would have been worn by many primarily for protection from the elements.

Where I live, when it rains lots of people use umbrellas, I too use an umbrella. I'm not using it because of herd mentality, because I want to fit in. I'm using it because its appropriate for the conditions.

Naw, very few truly want to stick out. We are a herd animal by our nature. What you have here are people who reject or have been rejected by the main herd and who are forming a sub-herd. That's what this place is. People grouping with those whom they feel a commonality aka a herd.

This is also incorrect (and almost borders on insulting). Human beings are not herd animals, if you insist that we are please cite a source because the scientific community considers humans to be social animals. Now, social animals are certainly capable of exhibiting herd behaviour at times, but this is not the same as being a herd animal. As social animals it is natural for us to form a social network, such as this one.

A key difference between social and herd animals is that social animals evolve to stand out[1]. If you study a species of social animal you will find that as the society gets larger, the members become more distinctive (I've heard some people refer to this as 'evolving individuality'). So TheDane is absolutely correct in his statement "Today you wear a fedora to stick out", its a natural part of being a social animal! *

[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21333537
* Though I standby my earlier statement that for some, wearing a fedora is entirely due to their practicality, rather than their uniqueness.

 

[facade]

That's simply not true. I understand that they were the fashion back then and that some peoples need to fit in would have contributed to their popularity, but that doesn't change the fact that hats are an item of functional clothing. They would have been worn by many primarily for protection from the elements.

Where I live, when it rains lots of people use umbrellas, I too use an umbrella. I'm not using it because of herd mentality, because I want to fit in. I'm using it because its appropriate for the conditions.



This is also incorrect (and almost borders on insulting). Human beings are not herd animals, if you insist that we are please cite a source because the scientific community considers humans to be social animals. Now, social animals are certainly capable of exhibiting herd behaviour at times, but this is not the same as being a herd animal. As social animals it is natural for us to form a social network, such as this one.

A key difference between social and herd animals is that social animals evolve to stand out[1]. If you study a species of social animal you will find that as the society gets larger, the members become more distinctive (I've heard some people refer to this as 'evolving individuality'). So TheDane is absolutely correct in his statement "Today you wear a fedora to stick out", its a natural part of being a social animal!

[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21333537

Hats served a function. They still serve a function today. In the period in question, social mores outweighed the function. You simply did not go out without a hat. But that was not my point. My point was that all hats were worn to fit in, not just the common man's hat. A gentleman wearing a top hat is doing so, not to be an individual, but to fit in with those of his economic class.

Regarding man, assign whatever term you want. The point is that man is not a loner, he is an animal that prefers the comfort and safety of a group. And no man does not want to stick out. To stick out implies that man wants to go it alone which is not the case. The group variations exist not to show man is unique but to show affiliation with sub-groups.

A goth kid walking the mall alone may seem like a unique individual, a loner. But this is not the case. Their dress is simply to mark that they belong to a sub-group. The goth kid is not unique, he is a stray. When he returns home he will reconnect with his herd of goth friends.

When man wears something that is out of the ordinary. He is almost universally advertising his allegiance to a group and not showing his own individuality. Colors, goth, saggy pants, football jerseys, punk, hipsters, vampire wannabes, and 40-year-old white guys in fedoras all buck the common dress, but they all seek the solace and comfort of a group of like-minded/dressed people. Their own herd.

Man may boast of his individuality but in truth he prefers the comfort and safety of the group.

 

[carranty]

@facade

Well, I've stated the scientific consensus, which is in stark disagreement with your viewpoint. You are of course entitled to your opinion though.

 

[Hal]

...they were the fashion back then..but that doesn't change the fact that hats are an item of functional clothing. They would have been worn by many primarily for protection from the elements.

I'm sure this is true, and that humans are social rather than herd animals. But the observation (as I see it) behind Facade's argument is the near-ubiquitous conformity of a great number of the population in our countries, especially of the young. The unwritten social rules seem to have produced a very intolerant conformity.

 

[carranty]

I'm sure this is true, and that humans are social rather than herd animals. But the observation (as I see it) behind Facade's argument is the near-ubiquitous conformity of a great number of the population in our countries, especially of the young. The unwritten social rules seem to have produced a very intolerant conformity.

Oh sure. I was commenting more on facade's sweeping generalisations such as "ALL hats, not just fedoras, were worn to fit in", and his thoughts that all members of this forum aren't expressing their uniqueness by what they wear, but rather conforming to the "sub-herd" they have become a part of through joining this forum. Its just not the case that every person who stands out from the crowd in some way, is doing so only because they are trying to fit in to another, different, crowd. That's not just my opinion, its the outcome of decades worth of research into fields such as evolutionary anthropology. Maybe facade wasn't saying this, and I've just misunderstood. But that's how I read his posts.

That said, some people do gather in groups that are intolerant of conformity. Gated communities are a prime example. And there is certainly a subset of our youth that do the same (I assume we're talking about the 'chav' type of youth?). I guess we all do it in one way or another, sticking strictly to clothing and fashion though, although wide spread, I wouldn't say its near-ubiquitous -the conformity maybe, yes, but not the intolerance. I think it very much depends on location.

 

[Roan]

My family and I gathered at a state park outside the city on Sunday for my birthday and I decided to wear my new (to me) black Wormser homburg. There was the usual excessive picture-taking that occurs at such events and of course the eventual uploading of said pictures to facebook. My one sister-in-law commented on one of the photos and, to paraphrase, said I looked Amish......I mean I know the lady is nuts and all but, Amish?! It's not even close except that it's black!

Ugh, I knew there was a reason I avoided family functions.

 

[jlee562]

@facade

Well, I've stated the scientific consensus, which is in stark disagreement with your viewpoint. You are of course entitled to your opinion though.

I would be downright shocked if Facade's comments were the result of any formal education in social sciences, anthropology, or related fields. In fact, I'm quite positive the opposite is true.

As far as the topic at hand in the OT: most everyone now knows that hats are "my thing," so to speak and expect to see me in headwear. My mother initially didn't quite take, she gave me an Indiana Jones comment! Though in fairness to her, I was wearing my Indy hat (but with a grey blazer, a very not Indiana Jones outfit), but told me the other day that I always look good in the hats I choose. My friends have also been quite receptive, though I do live in a city where stingies have become quite popular, and I've even seen a few widebrims out (one fellow in the Castro the other day was wearing an open crown OR).

 

[carranty]

.... and of course the eventual uploading of said pictures to facebook

Ah yes, I know that feeling. Often times I'll be belatedly tagged in a face book photo only to find comments (from friends of the uploader but strangers to me) like "Who's the guy in the cowboy hat" etc, I wear an open road style fedora . Comments from my friends are usually along the lines of "New hat? huh", and while I've got the (very rare) occasional compliment from the ladies, most people in person seem not to mention it at all.

 

[facade]

Oh sure. I was commenting more on facade's sweeping generalisations such as "ALL hats, not just fedoras, were worn to fit in", and his thoughts that all members of this forum aren't expressing their uniqueness by what they wear, but rather conforming to the "sub-herd" they have become a part of through joining this forum. Its just not the case that every person who stands out from the crowd in some way, is doing so only because they are trying to fit in to another, different, crowd. That's not just my opinion, its the outcome of decades worth of research into fields such as evolutionary anthropology. Maybe facade wasn't saying this, and I've just misunderstood. But that's how I read his posts.

That said, some people do gather in groups that are intolerant of conformity. Gated communities are a prime example. And there is certainly a subset of our youth that do the same (I assume we're talking about the 'chav' type of youth?). I guess we all do it in one way or another, sticking strictly to clothing and fashion though, although wide spread, I wouldn't say its near-ubiquitous -the conformity maybe, yes, but not the intolerance. I think it very much depends on location.

By all hats I meant all styles of hats. Not every hat worn from the history of time. The original poster seemed to suggest that fedoras were worn simply to fit in and homburgs and stiff hats were worn by men of individuality. My response was to point out that those hats were worn by men who wanted to conform to a different social-economic group. They had no more indviduality than the common man of the time.

I never went into the reasons why people choose to be different. Those are many and varied. People do dress to curry the favor of a specific group they wish to belong too and conversely some people dress a certain way first and then seek out a group to match. My point is simply that those embracing or rejecting the norm will still seek a group to belong too.

Even in a herd, each animal is an individual. People want to be individuals, not mindless drones, but few want to be unique. Most need to belong somewhere. If you are truly unique, then by definition, you belong nowhere.

 

[TheDane]

The original poster seemed to suggest that fedoras were worn simply to fit in and homburgs and stiff hats were worn by men of individuality.

I'm sorry, then I have been very unclear

My point was, that the fedora was not seen as a special stylish or classy hat. Stiffs and homburgs were the upperclass' stylish headgear, while the fedora was worn by "everybody". Just a piece of clothing - either to keep you safe from the elements, or as a tradition or collective habit.

Another point was: "Back then you wore a fedora to blend in - today you wear a fedora to stick out". I probably should have been a little more clear: "Back then you wore a hat to blend in - today you wear a fedora, homburg or stiff to stick out"

 

[BladeOfAnduril]

I like hat wearing but I'm still waiting for that positive comment that just makes ones day. A few times I've gotten "nice hat". Half of those being genuine, and the other half being sarcastic. I seem to be teased for it more often than not. I've been called Indy, Frank, Dick Tracy, gangster and probably a few others I can't recall at the moment. I don't particularly care that much, but as someone relatively new to hats, positive comments would be a nice boost to confidence.

 

[facade]

I'm sorry, then I have been very unclear

My point was, that the fedora was not seen as a special stylish or classy hat. Stiffs and homburgs were the upperclass' stylish headgear, while the fedora was worn by "everybody". Just a piece of clothing - either to keep you safe from the elements, or as a tradition or collective habit.

Another point was: "Back then you wore a fedora to blend in - today you wear a fedora to stick out". I probably should have been a little more clear: "Back then you wore a hat to blend in - today you wear a fedora, homburg or stiff to stick out"

Thanks for clarifying. Not sure if I fully agree though. The original Knox 40 fedora first appeared in the 20's. Forty dollars was way beyond the means of the everyday Joe of the time and the hat was marketed as Knox's finest hat. Yes homburgs and toppers were deemed generally dressier but the fedora was not the baseball cap of the 20's.