How did America let this man become an icon of the working class?

[rue]

Does the Larry in question usually knock the first cop down with the front end of his car?

I haven't seen it, but it wouldn't surprise me lol

.... you generally can't be dumb and have a degree.

Yeah well, my husband being an Army recruiter would disagree with you. He cringes when college graduates come in to his office as only about 30% pass the academic tests to get in. It's the ones that haven't been to college that usually get the highest scores.

 

[jamespowers]

Yeah well, my husband being an Army recruiter would disagree with you. He cringes when college graduates come in to his office as only about 30% pass the academic tests to get in. It's the ones that haven't been to college that usually get the highest scores.

I suppose having a bit of horse sense is better than being a horse's.........but anyway.
In many cases I find that college degrees are very specific. The person knows a ton about his major but nothing else. They are focused like a laser beam Rainman.

 

[rue]

I suppose having a bit of horse sense is better than being a horse's.........but anyway.
In many cases I find that college degrees are very specific. The person knows a ton about his major but nothing else. They are focused like a laser beam Rainman.

Very true. The biggest problem is that they are told to use calculators in school and when you take the army test, you can't use one.

 

[LizzieMaine]

A very pointed critique of what's happened to post-secondary education in recent decades can be found in Paul Fussell's hilariously trenchant analysis of modern culture, "BAD -- Or, The Dumbing of America." This book was written in the early '90s, and pretty much everything tagged in it as BAD then is much, much worse today. The gist of his critique of modern universities is that they've pretty much abandoned the idea of providing well-rounded universal education in favor of turning out specialized "degrees" as prerequisites for the job market. He considers the vast majority of degrees granted in the last fifty years or so as being little more than an overinflated trade-school certification.

 

[Undertow]

I'm surprised this is even a conversation.

Furthermore, Mr. LCG is quite articulate and relatively intelligent. Icon? I'm not sure who decided that, but certainly he's no more an icon than any other formulaic, researched and developed fictitious character.

 

[jamespowers]

Very true. The biggest problem is that they are told to use calculators in school and when you take the army test, you can't use one.

Calculators for simple math?!

 

[sheeplady]

I suppose having a bit of horse sense is better than being a horse's.........but anyway.
In many cases I find that college degrees are very specific. The person knows a ton about his major but nothing else. They are focused like a laser beam Rainman.

People would say that this is because of the downfall of Liberal Arts programs, with BA programs gradually being either replaced or general requirements being watered down or removed. Other people say that this is because of the failure of Liberal Arts to secure students jobs compared to more focused degree programs.

There is an age old debate at the secondary level (which is happening more and more about post-secondary degrees too): is the purpose of an education to make someone a well-rounded person (citizen) OR is it about creating job skills (workforce)?

 

[rue]

Calculators for simple math?!

They have to know Algebra and some Geometry for the Army.

As far as high school, my daughter was yelled at for not using her calculator for Algebra even though she could do it without one.

 

[jamespowers]

Very true. The biggest problem is that they are told to use calculators in school and when you take the army test, you can't use one.

I forgot to mention Idiocracy(http://youtu.be/BXRjmyJFzrU) Strong caution concerning language and coarseness with Clevon.:eeek: That is why I just posted the link. It certainly explains a lot that has been going on though.

 

[jamespowers]

They have to know Algebra and some Geometry for the Army.

As far as high school, my daughter was yelled at for not using her calculator for Algebra even though she could do it without one.

I could maybe understand geometry (although I got through it without one) but algebra?

 

[jamespowers]

People would say that this is because of the downfall of Liberal Arts programs, with BA programs gradually being either replaced or general requirements being watered down or removed. Other people say that this is because of the failure of Liberal Arts to secure students jobs compared to more focused degree programs.

There is an age old debate at the secondary level (which is happening more and more about post-secondary degrees too): is the purpose of an education to make someone a well-rounded person (citizen) OR is it about creating job skills (workforce)?

Well, you do get stuck with a bunch of dreck for the first two years that they call General Education. The history, math and English was ok but The students really should know most of that before they get there. I won't even mention the Marriage and Sex classes.:eusa_doh:

 

[C-dot]

You can be smart and degreeless, but you generally can't be dumb and have a degree.

I'm going to add to the pile of disagreement: You can, and many people do.

In many cases I find that college degrees are very specific. The person knows a ton about his major but nothing else.

That, and they only know theory. Theres no practical education in there, and while theory is important, practicality is much more so.

Calculators for simple math?!

If you're me: Yes. I never liked it, I was never good at it, I chose to get by without it. As a result, its a running joke in my social circle to ask me what 7 x 8 is and watch my eyes glaze over.

All this brings me to the ultimate point: There are different types of intelligence, and only one of them has to do with higher/post-secondary education. Some people make things, and taught themselves; some didn't graduate from high school but can read people like a book; some have a PhD from an Ivy League institution and can't hold a conversation.

This isn't to bash or stereotype anyone who does have an education: I have one myself. Its just to prove that intelligence is not a dependent variable for having one.

 

[jamespowers]

1That, and they only know theory. Theres no practical education in there, and while theory is important, practicality is much more so.

That is a good point that I missed mentioning.
:eusa_doh:

If you're me: Yes. I never liked it, I was never good at it, I chose to get by without it. As a result, its a running joke in my social circle to ask me what 7 x 8 is and watch my eyes glaze over.

56.

 

[jamespowers]

All this brings me to the ultimate point: There are different types of intelligence, and only one of them has to do with higher/post-secondary education. Some people make things, and taught themselves; some didn't graduate from high school but can read people like a book; some have a PhD from an Ivy League institution and can't hold a conversation.

Or they speak about inane and banal things when they do.

 

[C-dot]

56.

I'll bet you needed a Masters in Mathematics for that

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Nobody I knew growing up had any idea what NASCAR was, if it even existed then. But every person I knew, male or female, young or old, followed baseball -- even elderly grandmothers could tell you what Jose Santiago's earned run average was, or why George Scott was bumped down to sixth in the batting order. Maybe the difference between the working class then and the working class now is the difference between baseball and car racing?

It's interesting that you mentioned baseball because, of the major sports in the United States, it seems that baseball has more of a working class background than the other two.

Football and, to a lesser degree, basketball seemed to have a more elite image as they were more closely associated with college (mainly a preserve of the well-to-do back then) almost from its very beginning. Many of the early baseball greats such as Shoeless Joe Jackson were truly working class heroes as they were rough and tumble men who came from that background and many also got their start in baseball playing on the factory team.

 

[Pompidou]

Different types of intelligence - I agree 100%. Degree programs leaving you with a highly focused type of knowledge rather than well rounded - I can agree with that too, though I'd say in that case, that's a decision the student makes. In getting my BA in history, I also stayed well rounded with side focuses on philosophy, literature and anthropology - a good deal of French as well. The only areas I avoided were the math ones, because I'm like C-Dot when it comes to math. You can leave uni focused or generalized - the choice is up to you.

The only thing I'd disagree with, and nobody's said it, but it's been insinuated, unless I'm reading too much into things, is that college makes people less smart.

I put myself in the creative/book smart (mostly the former - the more useless of the two) but no common sense camp. I didn't lose common sense in college. I never had it, and college didn't add it. No real people skills so to speak of all through school and college, but I learned quickly in the real world.

 

[jamespowers]

I'll bet you needed a Masters in Mathematics for that

:rofl: Does a BA in Finance with a minor in Economics count?

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I'll bet you needed a Masters in Mathematics for that

Hey, he's Jamespowers!

Actually calculators were just starting to come into use when I was in high school so I remember laboriously memorizing the multiplication tables as a young lad.

 

[jamespowers]

Hey, he's Jamespowers!

Actually calculators were just starting to come into use when I was in high school so I remember laboriously memorizing the multiplication tables as a young lad.

Yeah, me too. There were calculators but they were far too expensive at that time for a high school student to use.