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How can you tell if a leather jacket is well made?

Edward

Bartender
Messages
25,069
Location
London, UK
Are Langlitz more of a 'mainstream' affair than the other premium companies about which we rave on FL? I ask as if they are seeking a bigger market than John, Stuart or the folks at Aero, I could understand that they might want to avoid horse. It's bound to be much more expensive and less plentiful than once it was since, as far as I am aware, in recent years the slaughter of horses in the US has been banned, so they now have to be taken over the border to be processed, then brought back?

I've gone through the same thing that a lot of us do, I think - preferring horse by a long way as I learned a little, and with more experience coming back to appreciate the differing qualities of other hides too. My Aero mc is steer (of course, finding a used one that had been worn precisely twice for half the price of buying the same jacket direct from Aero in whatever hide made a big difference there too... ;) ).





If LW offered some choice in their Famous Legendary Hard@ss Horsehide - maybe a little lighter weight, maybe different tannings, definitely different russet browns - I think they might have the edge. As it is, they have only done different colors and weights for offshore retailers, not under their own name.

I know where you're coming from, but I don't see it happening. I know folks who have asked Stuart about the possibility of a lighter version of his Buco repros, only to be given short shrift and a lecture speculating that the customer was, perhaps, insufficiently manly for a LW jacket. lol It seems to me that the very heavy nature of LW jackets is something they see as a plus: certainly, their marketing does seem to be heavily focussed on the 'heavy is Manly and Good' side of things. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that's a bad thing personally, just that if I wanted something different, I'd expect to always have to go elsewhere.

Well, I just sent AERO a mail through their "contact us" feature. In the case of Miss Amanda, do you use any e-mail to contact her directly?

Amanda deals with all enquiries, so most likely it'll be her from whom you hear from the generic address anyhow. Her own is amanda@aeroleather.com.

Some people complain that LW HH is just too stiff and difficult to break in, but I love it. Nothing else develops the deep, laser-sharp grain that's practically a LW trademark. I've found that a LW jacket will break in quite nicely with 6 months or less of regular use (maybe I should mention that I'm not just a weekend rider, so my jackets get a lot of hard use in 6 months, even when used in rotation with other jackets), and tough enough to abuse in reckless fashion (apparently nothing short of C4 explosive can damage the stuff :cool:).

They certainly are cracking jackets... I'd be tempted by one myself if they worked out a fair bit cheaper - which is the fault of the weak pound against the dollar, not the company.

Interesting, the discussion on HH. Has Stuart found an alternative source, or was that only ever a rumour?


Sadly, given my size, I've been shot down by Good Wear and Lost Worlds. Pretty disappointing. I mean, they make horses and cows bigger than me, so can they not really get hides big enough for me? I'm a 50-52L. I come in at 6'-4", 240. Not a fat guy, just big. I can't believe that I'm that much of a freak in the custom jacket world!
Anyone have any other suggestions? Other than shrinking ;)

AFAIK, LW will do other sizes custom; their OTR sizes are, I suppose, limited to what will sell most quickly. Goodwear I could understand not going up that far - John's business model is, in the main, concerned with very historically accurate repros. Of the surviving examples of originals, there just aren't (m)any (never say never!) of that sort of size. With A2s, especially, remember how young and skinny the typical 30s/40s kid in the USAAF would have been....

Just to clarify a few points... I'm not anywhere near the UK, I'm actually from Mexico. I am both on the petit side, being 5'4" and currently weighting somethig around 110 and 115 lbs, currently 21 years old. I don't think I'll grow more (vertically, that is!) and I think in british pounds because it's easier for me to make the conversion. The truth about my budget is that I'm a student on a very tight budget, yet, I don't really mind spending that money (That I've been saving up since the very beginning of the year) because it's something I simply love. =D Besides... I want that to be the only "premium" jacket in my wardrobe and very possibly the ONLY one I'll ever have, so why not have the best? ;)

Can't fault your logic, though you might want to make allowance for 'post 25 spread' - it comes to us all! I am by no means fat or even 'plump', but I'm wearing a waist size now that is ten inches bigger than I did at 18 (I was basically a twig back then).

I agree , they used quite different HH independently of the tanneries.
Up to this point I own LW jackets and I hesitant to order from Aero, because the swatches samples that I have does not fully satisfied me ( off course that's just my opinion and in no way is intent to discredit Aero at all)..
But the swatches looks like it have a dull plastic coat with not grain at all, but after I bend it few times immediately shows the marble grain that you mentioned, too fast too soon.Nevertheless they are exceptional leather hides, and as you may know it's all in the eye of the beholder.

It's difficult to tell from the swatches sometimes - Amanda (rightly) advised me to go for cordovan in my Bootlegger over cherry as the cherry made up in a jacket looks much brighter than in a small, sample strip. It does seem to me, though, that the finish used on Aero's FQHH as standard is designed to give a 'broken in' (though not 'broken down') look quite quickly, whereas I get the impression LW stuff is design to have that 'new' look for much longer. Different Strokes, and all that.... I can see a place for both.
 
Messages
10,181
Location
Pasadena, CA
Thanks for the replies guys.
Edward: I understand there not being (m)any historic gear in my size. My son and I both love history, and he focuses on WWII and does reenacting at times. We have found rarely items near my size, but he's a lucky kid being tall and wiry in build, almost exactly the size most of the old gear is. 38r heading to 38l.
I don't mind a repro as I like the idea of breaking it in myself. Just had some 'tude in regards to getting a jacket my size from one or two guys. Aero and Good Wear were very nice, and Aero did not turn me down. I love the HH the more I read and see. My son just got one from the 30's from my father in law. A pre-WWII model that fits him like it was made for him.
I'm kinda jealous, and this thread has helped a lot. I always love starting new hobbies as there are so many knowledgeable and helpful folks out here.
Appreciate the tips and info all.
 

TheSnark

One of the Regulars
Messages
124
Location
S. Arizona, US
Are Langlitz more of a 'mainstream' affair than the other premium companies about which we rave on FL?

Langlitz is a small, family-run business (about 20 people, I think, in the entire operation), but they have been around a long time and have a stellar reputation. Within the motorcycle community in the US, Langlitz is generally regarded as the ultimate... and with good reason. Langlitz is the only jacket in my collection that can hold it's own against LW for quality... Langlitz and LW are the only jackets I own for which the quality is deserving of the term "works of art", rather than simply "very good jackets". (Though I am looking forward to ordering a GW jacket soon, which may also qualify as art, if what I've read is accurate.) Langlitz is determined to remain small and preserve quality, though their reputation would make it easy enough to attract money for expanding into a corporate affair like Vanson or Schott, and they continue to produce motorcycle gear exclusively.


Interesting, the discussion on HH. Has Stuart found an alternative source, or was that only ever a rumour?

There may be something to it. The LW Suburban I bought recently is a quite different leather than the famous stiff "hardtack" HH... much more supple out-of-the-box, though still thick and somewhat stiff. Actually, I think I prefer the older, stiffer leather, although the quality hasn't slipped an iota. Just a personal preference, since the quality of the Suburban hide is still very high.
 

apba1166

A-List Customer
Messages
372
Location
Philadelphia
If I remember, dosn't LW have some smaller sizes on their SALE part of the website. might not be the style you are looking for, but I remember them as being great deals. A Ryder I think and some others.
 

mimesis2nemesis

One of the Regulars
Messages
131
Location
Down the Memory Lane
About the LW sale page...

Yes, the Ryder looks like a pretty good jacket, only problem I see with it is that it's not available in Russet Horsehide anymore... And I really don't like how that jacket looks in black (Picky, I know :() And I've been advised by members before to go after that one. One of them is my same size and the jacket seems to fit him perfectly. But... he's 6'0" and I'm 5'4", I don't want the jacket to look to long on me, specially since it's gonna be a really good one. BTW, since I'm still relatively young... do you think I should order a size I'll "grow into" or go with a model of a slightly more relaxed cut?
 

holdemchamp1225

One of the Regulars
The ryder IS available in YOUR size of 34 as I just talked with Stuart yesterday. 34 is available in BOTH black and russet brown so I think you are mistaken if you thought it was NOT available. I'm actually getting the same jacket in black as I think the black looks great and would look much better when the grain begins to pop.



Yes, the Ryder looks like a pretty good jacket, only problem I see with it is that it's not available in Russet Horsehide anymore... And I really don't like how that jacket looks in black (Picky, I know :() And I've been advised by members before to go after that one. One of them is my same size and the jacket seems to fit him perfectly. But... he's 6'0" and I'm 5'4", I don't want the jacket to look to long on me, specially since it's gonna be a really good one. BTW, since I'm still relatively young... do you think I should order a size I'll "grow into" or go with a model of a slightly more relaxed cut?
 

normanf

One of the Regulars
Messages
156
Location
Salida
I tend to like cowhide leather jackets. I think a jacket should be able stand up to daily wear and I made a mistake of buying a lambskin jacket once, it got shredded very quickly. If the hide isn't tough, its too delicate for anything but occasional evening wear.
 

eClairvaux

One of the Regulars
Messages
259
Location
Monaco di Baviera
I believe quite a number of important and insightful factors have been named, I simply want to stress two of them a bit more:

- the smell: very good quality leathers have an entirely different and rich spectrum of different smells. I guess it is really the oil that is used at the end of the tanning process, but that smell will be with you for a long time. Better make sure it is one you love, dry or wet. Almost all A-list manufacturers will send you free leather samples and apart from the sight and touch, the smell is another reason to ask for them.

- speaking of the tanning process, most leathers used for jackets are tanned in a process using Chromium-III in quite high concentrations, amounting to 2-3% of the dry weight of the hide. In some instances Chromium-VI can develop in the tanning process (exposure to UV light, extreme ph-values, basically everything that will drive the oxidization to Cr6+) and will be stored in the hide, only to rub off on the wearer later on. Contrary to Chromium III that is even of nutritional value, chromium-VI is a serious toxin that causes allergic reactions. In higher concentration it can also cause cancer. (Erin Brockovich's nemesis was Chromium-VI, albeit in drinking water)
In a recent test of leather garments and shoes by our local health ministry as much as 30% of the garments that were tested had Chromium-VI concentrations above the official limit. (Read more here, sorry german only: http://www.lgl.bayern.de/lebensmittel/bedarfsgegenstaende_chrom_leder.htm)

That is quite frustrating to know, if you are also aware that the development of Chromium-VI in the tanning process can be avoided quite easily. In many places of the world the necessary measures are still seemingly not taken, or not taken properly.

Therefore, I would make sure the leather you do wear a lot, isn't going to cause you health problems. Makers of garments that will let me know their sources and are aware of the problem would always be preferrable in my eyes. I would trust a company like Horween to be under close inspection and also limited by regulatory rule by the authorities governing working conditions, than the majority of unknown tanneries in places with cheaper cost of labour.

Sorry if this has been boring and not about quality and style of the jacket making process itself directly, but I hope it still helps you to find the jacket that's right for you.

Edit: found a few english links on the Chromium-VI issue:
http://www.bfr.bund.de/cd/9575
http://www.strhk.com/newsletter/2007/october/C0202007_-_Cr_VI__in_leather_Protected.pdf
http://www.newspressnow.com/news/2009/may/25/tannery-owner-admits-chromium-6-was-used/
 
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