Hot Rods, Rat Rods, and Classics

[Thunderbolt]

We've had some pretty good conversations about cars in the past so I decided to start another one. What kind of vintige cars do you all like? I tend to float two ways: Rat Rods and classic originals. I'd prefer an original any day of the week with slight engine modifications to make them more drivable in today's faster roads. Also I just like it like that, I can't seem to leave an eninge alone. Keeping it original to me is preserving history. I think it's no different than museums and societies preserving WWII bombers and fighters. However, there are times when I'd like an old fashioned hot rod late 40's style. I know there are a lot of people here at the lounge that hate hot rods. How come? Both ways I think the cars are beautiful, unless its one of those Foose or Boyd style cars. The hot rod scene confuses me. If you do it like the first guys did it you are a Rat Rod, but if you use billet wheels, and bucket seats and an interior from a Toyota, you are a Hot Rod. Traditional cars should be called Hot Rods too, after all, they did coin the word. I think why a lot of people hat these modified vintage cars is because they sometimes destroy the history. I saw a Monster Garage episode where they took a brand new 1929 Model A Touring and made it into a rat rod, throwing everything away using only the body after the top was choped. "Brand new" you ask? It was parked in a wearhouse and forgoten for 70 or so years. People with more bread to spend are more likely to start off with something original and nice and start cutting on it. That's the sort of peole who use a Lexus interior. People with less dough pull a car from the woods or field and use that. These are the kind of peole who usualy make Rat Rods. I have no problem with the latter, as it would have rusted away anyway. If anything, they somewhat saved the car. Many people feel the word Rat Rod is duragatory. Is it because they feel they are the original hot rod therefore should be refered as such? Any thoughts?

 

[Michaelson]

My son-in-law and daughter do both....classic restoration, and ratrodding. The ratrod is a 'misnomer' when folks confuse them with hotrodding. True hotrodding is NOT the current trend of dropping a classic body on a Toyota frame. It was the actually replacement of the softer factory installed pushrods for hardened steel rods that could take the pounding and high heat of racing. 'hot rod'. Those engines were rebuilt and overhauled to be able to take the car to the local drag strip to challenge a competitor who has 'rodded' out his car to as highend performance as possible.

Ratrodding, on the other hand, was the workup of the car to 'cruising' level. Upgraded interior...lowering the frame...widening the stance....dressing up the engine. Most of the time, the engine horsepower isn't touched, but the 'sound' was, but replacing the factory maniford with headers. It upped the hp some, but didn't help the engine if you were fool enough to try and take on a 'hotrod' engined car. You'd end up with a blown engine everytime.

It's been really interesting to see how the kids cars have progressed. They've worked on a 48 Chevy fleetmaster, a 50 Dodge Wayfarer, and are currently involved in the hotrodding of a 49 Merc. wideglide, and a 48 Chevy Fleetline.

In the 'classic' restoration, I'm driving their only venture in that respect, and that's my 1950 Plymouth Special Deluxe.

All cars mentioned here were rust buckets when they started, and the next stop was probably a crusher.

Lots of fun, and all correct in their historic aspect.

Regards! Michaelson

 

[BellyTank]

I like Classics and Rat Rods too-

A Rat Rod is a Hot Rod- actually a No-Frills machine, inspired from the rods of the early fifties- black primer and white wall cross-ply tyres, etc.,- rust is also a common accessory and of course any mixture of parts. T, A and 32 Roadsters are prime material, as well as pickups. Performance or not it's a Rat.

The term 'Hot Rod' surely didn't come from anything to do with pushrods due to the engines in question being mainly Ford flatties.
Con-rods maybe. The term Hot Rod was apparently first used in 1945- prior to WW2 they were called Gow Jobs, Hot Irons, Jalopies...

A post war dry lakes T Roadster with a Ford 85 or V8-60 would do for me-
that and the '48-'50 Stude Business Coupe- the Starlight is nice but I prefer the Business.

B
T

 

[Michaelson]

Well, BT, you and I will have to agree to disagree on the pushrod definition, as I got that directly from a group of 70 year old hodders who live here in South Central Tennessee...used to rebuild their engines with the hardened steel rods to run whiskey out of the hills around here, and still attend Frog Follies every year to get together with the other old timers who built them in the 'good old days'.

Regards! Michaelson

 

[Thunderbolt]

Hot Rod : Definition

The American Heritage Dictionary defines Hot Rod as follows: Slang An automobile rebuilt or modified for increased speed and power.

The National Hot Rod Association (NHRA) also includes modifications for style and looks in addition to the dictionary definition of hot rod. Modified pushrods sounds sounds good to me, but I always thought they were talking about the frame, but that would be rails and not rods...
What is this 1948-1949 transition year where the cars lost the fat fenders? Weren't they street machines in 1949 and Rods or some other word in 1948 and earlier? I'm just mad they don't have a Sonic in Washington. :hamburger

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

In general I don't care for rods but I make an exception for the one as seen in "Wings." I think it was a Model T.

 

[Senator Jack]

I think ratrod is a lifestyle more than a car. Rockabilly guys drive ratrods and middle aged guys with too much money drive hotrods. There was a car show some eight or nine years ago that the ratrodders showed up at en masse. The hotrodders (billet wheels, dayglo colors) didn't want them there. This despite the ratrodders' understanding more about the era than the hotrodders. In the last few years ratrods have become cool so now the car show guys are getting into them and spending way too much to build them. I liken this to when Bloomingdale's began selling $100 saftey pins during the punk era. You can buy a $100 saftey pin but that wasn't going to make you punk. (I know. I was there.) If your car is pink and the radio is playing the Beach Boys, you're a hotrodder. If it's black and the radio is playing The Cramps, you're a ratrodder.

As for me, I've got my '66 Mustang Convertible. I find this to be a drivable classic. While I love the big old Buicks and Cadillacs of the 40s, it's not possible to drive them on a daily basis in NY: they're just too big to park anywhere. Plus the Mustang seems to go with all my moods - 40s, 50s, 60s.


Regards,

Senator Jack

___________________________________________

Remember, a vote for me is a vote against progress!

 

[Wild Root]

HOT DOG!

OOOOH BOY!

I know, you all must be thinking: No, not Wild Root, he?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s going to go nuts and fight for keeping EVERY THING original!

Sorry, not so! SURPRISE!

As for my personal taste I highly prefer an original, or restored-to-stock vintage or classic auto. I do believe there are cars that should never be touched by a hot-rod enthusiast such as Cord?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s, Graham?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s, Lincolns, Cadillac?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s, Duesenberg?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s and other high priced and rarer then rare and ?¢‚Ǩ?ìone of a kind?¢‚Ǩ? autos.

Fords and Chevy?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s seem to be the #1 choice for hot-roders and rat-roders alike. To me a true hot-rod is what people consider today rat-rods. A true hot-rod is just a bucket, four wheels and a V-8! Oh, and a milk crate to sit on!

Today?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s hot-rods like those seen on American Hotrod made by Boyd Coddington are just as sad as they get! I saw one episode when they were going to rod out a car for Budweiser. They found a completely original stock 1936 Ford Biz-coupe that even had the ?¢‚Ǩ?ìA?¢‚Ǩ? ration stamp in the window! They took all the goods off and sandblasted the whole thing. There was not one speck of rust on this car! It was super clean and it would have been super easy to put back to stock condition but, NO! They chopped the top and turned it into a roadster. It just makes me sick! I don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t even want to think about what other cars that have been messed with by those clowns! Their cars are not old when they?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re done with them!

Rat-rods I find are fun because they rescue something from a field or a barn and then make it run again! But, when any one takes a perfectly good original car that hasn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t been touched within 50 to 80 years and turns it into a hot rod or rat rod it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s a mortal sin! And, when they throw all the spare parts away like they?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re trash? Come on! They could sell those parts to other guys who need them for their restorations!

Ok, that?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s all from me before I start to boil over.

WR.

PS. A vintage car with AC, power steering, disk brakes, keyless entry, shaved handles, bucket seats, CD player, and modern wheels is in no way a vintage auto! It?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s a new car.

PPS. Ah a rare specimen. A 32 Ford before a Hot-Rod nut cuts it.

Dime a dozen

 

[shamus]

to me a true rat-rodder would not have a radio in his car.

I agree that if it's original keep it that way. If it's junk or scrap.. then make it like they would have back in the day.

Hot rods were rat rods at one time. But along the way they changed. Now rat rods are back.. I still see that 34 ford around. THE example of a rat rod to me.

It's a side note, but I own a 70 bronco and it took me quite a while to find an "un-cut" one. See most guys bought them, cut them up, raised them inches and put huge tires on them and do what they call rock-crawling. Me... I keep it as original as I possible can. And I still have fun driving it, but that's me.

 

[BellyTank]

Well, BT, you and I will have to agree to disagree on the pushrod definition, as I got that directly from a group of 70 year old hodders who live here in South Central Tennessee...used to rebuild their engines with the hardened steel rods to run whiskey out of the hills around here, and still attend Frog Follies every year to get together with the other old timers who built them in the 'good old days'.

Well Michaelson- the engines in the cars that defined the term and the era didn't typically have pushrods- in the later '30s and '40s, the vast majority of Hot Rod engines were sidevalve/flathead- so the logic for pushrods isn't so good. Connecting rods I could understand.
My information comes from Dean Batchelor, Wally Parks, Don Montgomery, et al., Hot Rodding pioneers who were there in So Cal and the dry lakes of the '30s and '40s where this lifestyle was centred. Tennessee was not really at the forefront of this thing and maybe the 'pushrod thing' is a lot more colloquial Tennesseean.

B
T

 

[Michaelson]

Could be, my friend. Could very well be. :cheers1: High regards! Michaelson

 

[jamespowers]

here in South Central Tennessee...used to rebuild their engines with the hardened steel rods to run whiskey out of the hills around here, and still attend Frog Follies every year to get together with the other old timers who built them in the 'good old days'.

Please don't tell me Junior is still running shine at his age.
When you get together, is there still some clear stuff in mason jars being passed around? Maybe a bottle or two with the lightening bolt embossed into the glass? Don't be that way. Share. Bring one to the QM. I will expect one. :cheers1:

Regards to all,

J

 

[Michaelson]

Yep, it's still being run, and it's even more important to know your 'maker' today, as there are more 'cut rate' shiners than you can shake a stick at, and you have an even better chance on getting burned, or poisoned, by an amateur shine maker. The days of the high speed muscle cars in sheep's clothing is over as well, but the shine still gets moved, and not in mason jars either. To expensive, even at Wal-mart. No, old plastic milk jugs is the choice now.

Oh, they don't share their sources lightly either. It's just as closed mouth now as it ever was as to whom is making, selling, or carrying....

Regards! Michaelson

 

[jamespowers]

Yep, it's still being run, and it's even more important to know your 'maker' today, as there are more 'cut rate' shiners than you can shake a stick at, and you have an even better chance on getting burned, or poisoned, by an amateur shine maker. The days of the high speed muscle cars in sheep's clothing is over as well, but the shine still gets moved, and not in mason jars either. To expensive, even at Wal-mart. No, old plastic milk jugs is the choice now.

Oh, they don't share their sources lightly either. It's just as closed mouth now as it ever was as to whom is making, selling, or carrying....

Man! I don't want to go blind. I guess Uncle Jesse closed the still in the hills.
I will stick to making my own Cherry Jack. It's sounds cheaper and I can put it in good glass decanters and fool my friends. The best one was using vintage embalming fluid bottles. Who is up for 16 ounces?
Yeah I saw that program on the history channel with the diagrams of how they used to load up a car with shine. It is hard to believe they got jugs in the spare tire, roof, floor, gas tank, doors, under the fenders and just about every other place you could think of. Two hundred gallons of shine in a 40 coupe is a heck of a feat.

regards to all,

J

 

[Dr. Shocker]

Classic, Kustom, Rat or Hot the true question Billet or Billet Proof.......

most of the grease I know just really disslike guys who pay other people to build thier rides and people who have no idea to what they own......these types ussually by everythng billet......and have 20,000 paint jobs.....poo

I love all the variations Stock, Kustom, Klean, or Grungy a car is always a work in process and if its not its time to sell and get another one......

hey didn't we have this discussion a year ago or so

 

[Mycroft]

What is the difference between a Rat and Hot Rod? (soory to get a bit off topic)

 

[Thunderbolt]

I don't know...

...but I wasn't here a year ago, so we have to do it again!

 

[Wild Root]

Today a hotrod is a car with a very beefy powerplant, with new every thing. Power steering, disk brakes, A/C CD player, monster sound system, new interior, bucket seats, roll bars, modern gauges, plastic, plastic and more plastic parts! Chopped, lowered, channeled and decked or slammed. Blowers and headers, you know the works. Just watch American Hot rod on Discovery and you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ll see what a hotrod is today.

A ratrod is a rusty bare mettle or black primered car with bias ply tiers and mostly vintage equipment. They were known in the 40?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s and 50?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s as Jalopies or hotrods. A 1940?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s Hotrod consisted of a motor (Ford V-8?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s and other powerhouses of the time) a three or four speed trans, four wheels of course. The seats were mostly crates or bench seats if they wanted to get fancy. There were no kick panels or door panels. It was a no frills car. The thrill was having an open car with a big motor that went VRRROOOOM!

To me, ratrods are cool because they use vintage equipment on them. They are fun to see and also fun to drive I bet. A modern hotrod is like buying a new Honda for 45,000 that slightly resembles a 1930?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s Ford or Chevy.

WR.

 

[Thunderbolt]

Sort of a long story

What is the difference between a Rat and Hot Rod? (soory to get a bit off topic)

You aren't off topic at all. Were talking cars here. A hot rod is an automobile, (car, truck, anything) modified for increased power and speed. Thechnicly, a 1995 Honda Civic with a cold air intake, body kit, spoiler, and a coffee can muffler is as much of a hot rod as 1932 Ford with a Flathead, four-on-the-floor with lake pipes and slicks. A hot rod is more associated with vintage cars though, mostly from the 1920's-1948. 1949 to present cars are called street machines. Muscle cars are street machines. 1948 was the last year for the big fendered cars. Street machines in my opinion is just another form of hot rod, just a 1949 and later vehicle, but has been modifed for power and speed. Over the years hot rods have changed right along with our changing times. The hot rodders began to use more modern approaches to creating the modifications on their cars. Rack and pinion steering, computer machined billet aluminum for manny different parts including wheels, digital gauges, EFI, contemporary colors like pastels, tweed upolstry, bucket seats from modern cars, modern dashes and steering wheels, power everything, etc. etc. etc. Rat Rodders are a bunch of car guys who sort of think like us. They wanted a return to the roots of Hot Rodding. They wanted to do it like the pioneers did it. So instead of the modern stuff, they kept the vintage interiors, or no interior, WWII aircraft seats instead of buckets, basicly nothing modern. These were to be period correct cars. Nothing that wouldn't be found in the 1940's-early 1960's. Some Rat Rodders find the words Rat Rod duragatory. They prefer the term Nostalgia Rod. Some say that the modern hot rodders were calling them Rat rods because they tended to be rusty or primer and they didn't spend as much money on them. Some say Rat Rods are exuses not to put money or quality work into a car. It's all up to us as indeviduals to make what we want of it. I say it's a return to tradition. Tradition just happens to cost less.

 

[Wild Root]

Ratrods cost less? Well, maybe so but some guys pay top dollar for some of the original parts they buy for them. Yes, they do save some nice healthy samolians on the lack of a 10,000+ paint job but, some of the parts they have to find are also being sought after by restorers.

I really like seeing a good old school rod because they're period and fun. I like my vintage autos vintage. Modern equipment just seems to through off the whole complete style of the body. I can't begin to tell you how much I wanted to throw up when I saw a 1936 Plymouth coupe with the vinyl interior and door panels from a 1978 Oldsmobile station wagon complete with the matching steering wheel! Talk about sickening. 1970?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s family wagons are nerdy and un-cool to begin with, why in heaven?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s name put that interior into a 1930?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s car??? Oh the lack of taste is mind boggling!

Root.