Hoss

[jamespowers]

Did someone mention they wanted a western hat something like this or am I just having very funny dreams?

 

[Matt Deckard]

Cool, looks good. Thanks.

I think it's modern. I want vintage

is that a 20's style repro?

 

[jamespowers]

Ah, so it was you then. I knew someone was looking for one but this looks like it has been around the block a few times. (no pun intended)
I am not sure what vintage it is but it sure looks old. The inside of the hat makes it look like a late 1950s cowboy hat but I am not sure. It is probably part of the Stetson Old West Collection that coincided with all those westerns that were on TV at the time. Leave it to Stetson to take advantage of the situation.
I have attached a shot of the inside. What do you think?

 

[Matt Deckard]

The liner looks like the one they currently use.

 

[Matt Deckard]

I think it's one of these
http://www.millerhats.com/tommix_catalog/tommix.html

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Hi, yes that is a Stetson, probably not vintage as I think the older hat had a slightly different logo inside. Same cowboy and horse and drink, but different artwork.

It is called "Boss of the Plains" and was the hat of choice for Tom Mix (the hat style is that old). The hat in your photo is an unblocked verson. Those old photos of cowgirls from the 1910 to 1930 rodeo era were also wearing that hat in different forms and bashes. Some of them looked soft, that hat is not.

The Hoss hat was unblocked also, but the brim was curled and I don't think the hat was that high. I have a Gus cowboy hat that I put on another thread, it is not as high as this hat and has a rounded bash.

I probably mentioned in an earlier thread that I would love to have an old Tom Mix hat, but that I look rather weird in it. I do believe to look good in that thing, you have to be a big guy or maybe a very big gal. John Wayne could have pulled it off and did wear the Big Hats when he was young, but today, I don't know who could get by wearing it.

karol

 

[jamespowers]

I do not profess to know about cowboy hats as that is not my focus of study but there are subtle differences between the new hat you listed and the one I listed. That does not make it a 130 year old Boss of the Plains though.
The difference is in the size of the logo in the liner, sweatband and stitching, color of the bow, height and shape of the crown, color of the felt and the ribbon color used. Aside from that they are essentially the same. LOL
All of this does not mean that it is old either. What it does mean is that it looks just like the 50s to early sixties hat that my grandfather had. This has got me curious though and I will do more research to check it out. I am going to have to see if I can get Debbie Hendersons' Cowboys and Hatters: Bond Street Sagebrush and the Silver Screen. Might be an interesting read and I would rather be sure before professing anything. LOL Anyone out there have that book already?

Regards to all,

J

P.S. KD you should see me in my Stetson. I think it is bigger than the Hoss. LOL

 

[Matt Deckard]

Yeah, It could be fifties.
Leather band does not look modern to me. I don't think Stetson puts plastic over the image in their liners now.

I think your right... 50's.

I'm not focussed on Cowboy hats either, though I'd like to get a vintage one someday just for the heck of it.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

James --

The book I have is: The Cowboy Hat Book, revised edition, by William Reynolds and Ritch Rand. It has color photos of old and new cowboy hats, and also gives a history of cowboy hats, hat makers, and how Stetson first made fur felt hats. I am interested in the Henderson book, too, and will make a note to find it.

I would like to see a picture of your bigger-than-Hoss hat. I have posted my Gus hat in another thread ( I think it was the one in which we saw Velma in her bowlers and Bingstress in her cowboy hat). My "Gus," which is named after the character Robert Duvall played in Lonesome Dove, is also a Stetson. It is quite a bit more modest than that big Boss of the Plains.

The original Boss of the Plains hat was the first major hat that Stetson made and it was not a big hat. It had a flat brim and low rounded or flat crown. The big hats I think were made later for movie and rodeo cowboys. Tom Mix made it famous.

karol

 

[jamespowers]

Yeah, you have it right there. The original Boss of the Plains western hat was only made from 1865 to 1870. One of those hats would be very rare to find in decent condition.
The stuff made in the 1920s and on were fairly tale cowboy hats for the movies and for real coboys that worked for a living. Let's face it, the real Doc Holiday wore a Homberg. The super wide brim hats are fairly recent in the scheme of cowboy hats. I always have to laugh when I watch Clint Eastwood in Rawhide come in with that "cowboy hat" which just so happens to have a C crown! LOL LOL

Regards to all,

J

 

[K.D. Lightner]

I have seen a lot of movie/TV cowboys, especially in the 50's and 60's, who wore what suspiciously look to me like fedoras.

Even some of the turn of the century photos showed men and women wearing hats that look closer to "fedora" than "cowboy."

When, by the way, did fedoras become fedoras. And where did the name originate?

karol

 

[Matt Deckard]

 

[K.D. Lightner]

That looks like John Wayne in his pre-"Stagecoach" days, when he was in all those B Westerns.

I will have to find and download a photo of Col. Tim McCoy, an early cowboy actor, who wore the biggest and weirdest hats I have ever seen. His was a monster-size stetson and looked more, to me, like a witches hat.

karol

 

[jamespowers]

Originally posted by K.D. Lightner
When, by the way, did fedoras become fedoras. And where did the name originate?

karol

I had to look a while at several sources to make sure I remembered the history correctly. I suppose there has always been a soft felt hat that was used by peasants for protection from the sun since St. Clement discovered felting after putting raw wool in his sandal to soften his stride and found a felted mass after arriving at his destination but the Fedora as a nicely finished and blocked hat that is fashionable probably started its popularity in 1851 and became more popular in the US in its current forms in the 1880s.
The name comes from the play Fedora (1881-1882) by the French writer Victorien Sardou in which one of the characters wore a soft felt hat.
The English call the Fedora a Trilby from the stage production of the same name in 1885. The fedora has also been called the Crusher because of its ability to be reshaped after being crushed or (perish the thought) rolled up. I hope that helps.

Regards to all,

J

 

[jamespowers]

Ok, after much searching, I found an example of a late 40s early 50s liner and sweatband. It is from an Open Road but many Stetsons from that era had the same liner. Very rudimentary and few colors involved.
I thought I would freshen up the thread with the new information.

Regards to all,

J

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Yes, that is the liner I saw in the cowboy hat book I mentioned earlier in this thread. It was popular in the 40's. There is a photo in the book of a hat worn by Stetson's son. G. Henry Stetson and it had that logo inside the hat. The picture of the cowboy giving water to his horse looks more like a drawing, the newer one looks more like a painting.

By the way, that hat, and many other vintage cowboy hats, are housed in the Gene Autry Western Heritage museum, which I believe is in L.A. Have any of you ever gone there? I made it to the Roy Rogers museum when it was still in Victorville, but not the Gene Autrey one. I should go -- it has a lot more "Old West" stuff than Roy's museum, including one of those old Boss of Plains Stetsons from the 1870's.

karol

 

[jamespowers]

Originally posted by K.D. Lightner
I should go -- it has a lot more "Old West" stuff than Roy's museum, including one of those old Boss of Plains Stetsons from the 1870's.

If you go, take lots of pictures. I would like to see the Boss of the Plains owned by Autrey.

Regards to all,

J

 

[K.D. Lightner]

OK, James, I have yet to see you in your hat and it may very well be bigger than the Hoss hat, but here is an image for all cowboys and cowgirls to consider.

The king of all the Big Hats was not Tom Mix, it was Col. Tim McCoy, a cowboy actor in the 30's and 40's. Check out this hat:

 

[K.D. Lightner]

P.S. It was a special-made Stetson....

Those steely eyes and high pointy hat made him one tough looking hombre.

karol

 

[Michaelson]

Tom Mix's hats were PB's. I saw and held an autographed example in their showcase. It's odd, but the opening looked EXTREMELY small, and I made the comment to Tom Peters that Tom Mix must have had a VERY small head. Tom smiled, then put the hat on HIS head....it was bigger than a size 7, so the brim and crown REALLY fools the eye as to how large a hat size really is! Did me!

Anybody familiar with the name Elmer Keith, the father/creator of the Smith and Wesson 44 magnum revolver? Now THAT was a small man with a HUGE Stetson if there ever was one!!! Regards. Michaelson