Horween USA and Aero Leather Joint Statement

[majormajor]

Just to clarify my post above. I'm saying the Roughwear looks like goatskin, not that it is goatskin. These days thing like chemical etching can pop the surface grain out if required.

Is the jacket brand new?

 

[hpalapdog]

Is the jacket brand new?

Yes, it's new I believe.

Kelso have updated their site recently with hi-res pictures. If you download them and zoom in you get a great close up of what they using.

http://www.billkelsomfg.com/site/#!ourjackets

 

[majormajor]

Yes, it's new I believe.

Kelso have updated their site recently with hi-res pictures. If you download them and zoom in you get a great close up of what they using.

http://www.billkelsomfg.com/site/#!ourjackets

If it IS brand new - as I have mentioned elsewhere - the jacket has definitely benefited from Hot Water treatment.

This has definitely had an effect on the collar - and probably on the popping of the hide as well.

If I wasn't so uncynical, I would say that the sudden appearance of all these jackets in the last two days was some kind of advertising campaign. Get your orders in for Christmas!!:eeek:

 

[cloudylemonade]

There is a lot that happened between Aero calling Horween about a problem they found in house, and Aero and Horween making a joint public announcement about it. We'll never know the details so we can't say whether Aero insisted on a public announcement or Horween.

Well you can believe me or not, but as I said, we found out there was a problem, went to Horween and together decided a statement needed to be made.

 

[cloudylemonade]

I think some people don't fully read the threads from start to finish.

My take on Aero's situation is that every 3 months or so, another layer of the onion is peeled and another problem is revealed to us e.g. AeroUSA, Will leaving the company, the hide substitutions. I suspect we're only hearing about half of the problems but nonetheless, the underlying cause is the same, serious mismanagement in the past couple of years.

If Aero was originally Mr. Calder's company, I'm glad he and his daughter are back at the helm. Sometimes founders need to buy their businesses back to get things right again.

My father retired in 2004. From then onwards he was the major shareholder, but left the running on the business soley to Will Lauder, who he left in charge as Managing Director. Will had been in the business since 1986, so he had no reason to believe that Will wasn't to be trusted, so he left him to it.

All of the problems you mention were problems under Will's management. Regardless, as you all know he is no longer here at Aero and Ken is running things again now after he came back out of retirement with myself, my mother and my brother assisting him.

 

[irow]

My father retired in 2004. From then onwards he was the major shareholder, but left the running on the business soley to Will Lauder, who he left in charge as Managing Director. Will had been in the business since 1986, so he had no reason to believe that Will wasn't to be trusted, so he left him to it.

All of the problems you mention were problems under Will's management. Regardless, as you all know he is no longer here at Aero and Ken is running things again now after he came back out of retirement with myself, my mother and my brother assisting him.

If it is OK for me to ask, I wonder how does it feel to be burned by Will for all these years? I am interested in starting my own business someday in the future and these types of issues interest me.

 

[cloudylemonade]

Yesterday, when it was cold, I was wearing my LHB and it didn't get stiff. But I heard FQHH gets stiff when cold. Now I'm afraid it might be steer and all my chums will poke fun at me. I think I have to kill myself!:eeek::eeek::eeek:


As said before, I think some guys should relax a bit and maybe even start thinking.
We know a few facts, namely, steer is by no means inferior to horse and it is actually even more expensive by the square foot. On the other hand, horsehide jackets are more expensive than steer because horse is more difficult to cut and you have more waste. FQHH also is in a limited supply, exclusiveness explains higher prices. Nevertheless, taking the difference in price between steer jacket and FQHH as around 100 GBP and the raw material even more expensive, why, for the grace of god, did Will start these shenanigans if there wasn't even anything to gain in them? Moneywise?
I'm now leaving the realm of facts and venture into the kingdom of speculation. When I ordered my LHB in February this year I heard that HH was in very short supply, Japanese and Chinese competitors of Aero draining the market, Horween sold out, prices skyrocketing even on already placed orders, the works. In the end, this was all greatly exaggerated, but there might have been a grain of trouth within. My guess is that Will tried to satisfy an overwhelming demand by replacing one difficult to come by material by something else that technically speaking was as good. He even went that far to choose a material more expensive than horsehide to make good for the stuff he couldn't even get for money and good words because Horween's was sold out.
So, you see my conclusion quite clearly, I'm sure this whole mess didn't happen to "milk" the customers. From all I've heard, Will always acted to the contrary, he took jackets back when the customer wasn't totally happy and made the jackets new, he allowed for a lot of customization without charging and all that, this doesn't look to me like somebody who's ripping off cutomers. I think - pure speculation again - he tried to satisfy the demand by any means, knowing, expert he is, the material he used to bridge the gap was top-notch as well. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't HH the substitude during WWII for steerhide because that was in short supply? Anyway, armies are not famous for using the best material available to clad their men...
But be that as it may, I think, Aero, over the years, supplied us with beautiful jackets at a reasonable price - try to find similar jackets for under 800 Euro in a shop, good luck - and they will do all reasonable steps to make good this issue. I'm not sure how much old anger has been stirred up between Ken and Will, leaving to such a harsh "purge" including the issuing of this "joint statement", which to me is a bit like "burning the bridges", and this is none of my business anyway. But then the only side of the story we know is Ken's and in such a case the view of one side is never the full picture. With all we say and write here, we should keep this into account.
I know the jacket I have, my first Aero, has some flaws with measurements and also some weird things Aero insists in doing, like attaching the linings so close to the hems and cuffs. But on the other hand, this is was distinuishes it from an industry product. You may call it flaws, I call it character. Same thing but easier to handle when named properly.

UNIVERSITY PAPER ON "CABBAGE" IN THE GARMENT INDUSTRY

http://www.bartlett.ucl.ac.uk/dpu/publications/latest/publications/dpu-working-papers/WP69.pdf

4.2.2.(d)

"……….. One manufacturer raised the issue of losses made through CMT "cabbage" production. "Cabbage" was the excess material a CMT or outworker unit could save from the fabric given by the manufacturer after the required number of garments had been cut. CMT units in this way could make extra garments and sell them to retailers or wholesalers themselves for profit"


How "Cabbage" relates (or doesn’t) to the current Steerhide/Horsehide debate... On average six jackets of the same size and style would use up (for example) at the very least 180 Sq Ft if they are/had been cut from the much smaller Front Quarter Horsehide skins.

Cutting the same size and style garments from180 Sq Ft of Chrome Tanned 4oz Steerhide would yield on average seven jackets due to the easier cutting and reduced waste incurred with the much larger and "cleaner" hides (generally at least double the size of a Front Quarter Horse hide and with far less unusable blemished areas). Therefore one in seven jackets would be a bonus in relation to the actual footage used per garment.

If the leather used to cut these "example" jackets was part of a 'Cut Make & Trim' order placed with an outside factory, i.e. leather hides sent to be cut, made up and completely manufactured by an independent factory, this seventh jacket could be, and probably would be, legitimately considered as "Cabbage" and "belong" to the CMT Firm because the Company placing the order would have handed over 30 Sq Ft of leather per jacket ordered and expected 100 garments per 3000 Sq Ft of Raw Material whether or not the CMT operator managed to make 100, 110, 120 or whatever. This is how it worked when we ran so short of production that we had some Aero jackets made in Toronto during the early 1990's.

HOWEVER - This traditional and "un-official" Rag Trade perk does NOT apply when the said garments are made "In-House", any savings made on the cutting of the materials belongs in full to the Company who are producing their own Branded garments in their own factory using their own materials and staff.

Also, please note the price difference between 4oz Steer and FQ Horse on our site is £10 not £100.

 

[cloudylemonade]

If it is OK for me to ask, I wonder how does it feel to be burned by Will for all these years? I am interested in starting my own business someday in the future and these types of issues interest me.

Well I think you can all imagine. Hurt, angry and disgusted doesn't even begin to sum it up.

 

[Worf]

Thanks for clearing that up Holly, bout what I suspected.

Worf

 

[Carrie @ Insurrection]

Great to know! I was wondering what # needle do you use? I have a industrial Juki sewing machine and was wondering if getting a #18/110 needle would be too big? or too small? What size would you suggest?

Is a triangle leather point needle really needed? or would a normal needle work as well?

For zipper replacement, it depends...I usually use a 16, 18, or 20. On a thicker jacket, such as an Aero steerhide, I use an 18 needle. However, sometimes I need to go up to a 20 if I'm replacing a zipper WITH a wind flap.

You don't want to use a triangle point because the holes are already there.

 

[irow]

For zipper replacement, it depends...I usually use a 16, 18, or 20. On a thicker jacket, such as an Aero steerhide, I use an 18 needle. However, sometimes I need to go up to a 20 if I'm replacing a zipper WITH a wind flap.

You don't want to use a triangle point because the holes are already there.

How come? What would the triangle point do to the holes already there?

And what if I am sewing fresh leather, would a triangle point be advised?

 

[Carrie @ Insurrection]

How come? What would the triangle point do to the holes already there?

And what if I am sewing fresh leather, would a triangle point be advised?

The diamond (triangle) point can unnecessarily enlarge the holes from the previous stitching. The diamond point also makes it too easy to make mistakes because it doesn't provide resistance, making it harder to follow the old stitch holes.

When sewing new, fresh leather, use a 18 to 22 diamond point needle. I use a 18 diamond point to construct race suits and a 20 or 22 for custom work on Aero or Vanson jackets...

 

[xOUTLAWx]

double post

 

[xOUTLAWx]

WOW this is pretty shocking, all those posts going on and on about how superior Aero horsehide is and chances are you had steer. I remember guys telling me my Schott horsehide was basically crap and Aero was much heavier, now Aero says they don't make FQHH jackets heavier than 3 oz, I've measure my Schott HH jacket at 3 ozs, same weight. You guys probably had steer the whole time and were comparing 4+ oz steer to FQHH.

Anyway after the Aero USA mess and now knowingly selling steer as horse and charging such a premium price, I'm sorry but Aero needs to get its house in order, what a mess.

Don't take everything you read here to heart since there is a bit of a aero sect going on. I also have a schott HH jacket and it is fine.

And let us not forget the fact that they collect VAT from non-EU customers and pocket it (something that they failed to disclose until challenged - oops).

They have to get their stuff strait,

Fake HH jackets,

suspect price increase in october quietly pushed under the carpet,

VAT tax scandal,

Aero USA

That said, I wish the best of luck to Aero and their customers to get whole thing sorted out.

 

[Lungomare]

@ Holly

Meanwhile my jacket is back at Aero's. Now I am waiting for the result of yours and Ken's examination.

Sorry to ask this over the forum but somehow I can't reach you by e-mail - maybe my mails get spammed?

Thanks and kind regards,

Johannes

Should be a all one type - waiting for Holly's and Ken's opinion. Leather on the right front panel is a little bit softer than the left side ...

Not only a part of a panel is different but the whole right panel looks different!

Any experiences with that? Pics?

Have the same or similar experiences with jackets made before 2011?

Thanks and kind regards,

Johannes

 

[Lungomare]

Hello!

I have the great need to communicate here in the Fedora Lounge that today in the morning I had the opportunity to phone with Ken. It was such a pleasure to realize once more how dedicatively Ken and his doughter Holly care about their customers and are on the way to right the wrong done to Aero Leather by a couple of poeple that blessedly have left Aero meanwhile.

I am convinced that Aero Leather will stay one of the best manufacturers of leather jackets, top notch among the top end jacket makers, and I’ll stay a happy Aero customer my life long!

Kind regards,

Johannes

 

[majormajor]

I am convinced that Aero Leather will stay one of the best manufacturers of leather jackets, top notch among the top end jacket makers, and I’ll stay a happy Aero customer my life long!

+1

 

[jon11]

totally agree,

 

[cloudylemonade]

Very glad to hear he helped sort things out to a satisfactory conclusion for you And sorry for the delay on my emails, I'm around 24 hours behind with them at the moment, and this is the best it's been for a while. Always takes the full week to catch up, then the weekend throws you behind again!!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Hello!

I have the great need to communicate here in the Fedora Lounge that today in the morning I had the opportunity to phone with Ken. It was such a pleasure to realize once more how dedicatively Ken and his doughter Holly care about their customers and are on the way to right the wrong done to Aero Leather by a couple of poeple that blessedly have left Aero meanwhile.

I am convinced that Aero Leather will stay one of the best manufacturers of leather jackets, top notch among the top end jacket makers, and I’ll stay a happy Aero customer my life long!

Kind regards,

Johannes

For me..it is always a pleasure to talk on the phone with Ken. No nonsence..no feeble excuses and to the point. It doesn't take long to realise the commitment to his passion and honest concern with his customers. One would think that retirement would have brought peace of mind and plenty of time for other interest that we all would hope for. However..it's a good thing the on going chain of events did require an intervention probably in the nick of time. Easy to recognize the bad guys when they are more than willing to wreck a companys reputation for own selfish interests. If you think about it..there's just no way around it.
HD