Horween USA and Aero Leather Joint Statement

[majormajor]

WHOAH
The phrase "a can of worms" comes to mind.

Let me say first off that I salute Ken & Holly for their honesty and frankness. As others have said, few companies display such transparency as this.

But I also think that, in the next 24 hours, many Aero customers, who were perfectly happy with their jackets, will now be viewing their jackets with suspicion.

Yes, a whole skin of horse can be seen to be different to a whole skin of steer, but once it is made into a jacket, it is a far more difficult job.

I can't think of a worse scenario than Aero being inundated with dozens of returned jackets, all having to be examined, and then possibly replaced.

I would say, if you have an Aero jacket that you LIKE,and have been perfectly happy with until now, keep it. You might like the replacement less!:eeek:

 

[cuthbert]

Yeah, they 're already six months backordered, if they start to make replacement jackets we can stop to make new orders for at least one year.

 

[feltfan]

Holly,

I have written you separately. I suspect no one will want to send in their jacket for inspection. At least
not from this side of the pond. It would probably save everyone a lot of trouble if you could post pictures
of grain and creasing for both kinds of leather and a means, if any, for determining leather weight on a
completed jacket. I know I am surprised at how thin the leather is on my Hercules and it's not aging precisely
as I expected. But then, I've never seen another FQHH jacket from Aero before.

Thank you.

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

My Highwayman is also thin in the front, almost flimsy, but the back and top yoke is very sturdy, so I think it just differs a little.

 

[Deleted member 16736]

It would help greatly if you gave definitive dates of when the fraud began and when it ended. I also think it is not correct that Aero didn't advertise its leather as 4 oz. Maybe Mark Moye made that claim, but somebody associated with Aero had to say it because it was commonly understood among your customers.

 

[Boyo]

Aero, your honesty is refreshing, and I wish you well in the coming weeks and months as I imagine this ordeal is far from over. My enthusiasm for my first jacket ( on order) has not diminished. Thank You.

 

[majormajor]

From Lost Worlds site:

"chrome-tanned American Horsehide Leather -- unrivalled for beauty, durability, water resistance, scarcity and cache. Available from 3.0 - 4.5 oz./sq. ft".

 

[Peacoat]

Holly thank you guys for letting everyone know about this. You are a Number 1 Company.

I think you have had enough adversity this year to last for the next 20 years. Hopefully it will be smooth sailing from now on. PC.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

If your(Aero's)hvy FQHH is never any heavier than 3 ounce...then how heavy is the Aero A2 HH? Every Aero utility FQHH jacket that I've owned(probably 8 or so)has been much heavier than my Aero A2s...and my RealDeal A2 seems pretty hefty for normal A2 hide.
I must say..I'm quite surprised with the 3 ounce statement.
HD

 

[leaf&arrow]

Holly, I've been considering buying a jacket from your company for a while now, if anything, this candid statement is enough to cement my intention.

 

[hpalapdog]

Well, thats not for me to comment on, but Horween and any other tanner of horsehide we've ever known has never been able to make more than 3oz Horsehide.

I've got a Lostworlds 'horse' sample that's 4oz. It's noticeable thicker (1.9mm) than my Aero FQHH 3oz sample. It's used on their Trojan bike jacket.
The ultra heavy steer being talked about feels heavier, less of a garment grade material.

 

[Worf]

Man that sucks, to have to deal with another scandal I mean. You folks at Aero have done the RIGHT thing. As another poster said I've no horse in this race, BUT I've NEVER seen a company be so forthcoming about so damning a situation as this. I'll be saving my pennies... you've earned my respect and one day my business.

Worf

 

[53Effie]

I agree with Feltfan's statement above. Some pictures and thickness measurements would be helpful.

 

[apba1166]

Holly, what about the leather that is called "Vintage" Horse, said to be tumbled FQHH....?

 

[apba1166]

On another matter, as the owner of 3 Aero Steer jackets...one heavy, one mid, and one oiled (all bought second hand, one from the Aero site)...I love the steer, especially the heavy steer I have. So, even if these jackets were wrongly sold and have to be replaced, the jackets themselves should live on nicely somewhere for someone who wants one. I guess what I'm saying is the misrepresentation is a really bad thing, and I applaud Aero for coming forth--yet the jackets themselves aren't without value: they are still really good things for someone who may want one.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Insurrection are calling Aero hh leather 3.5oz.

Yeah, and steer is nice hide, some prefer it to horse so fraud aside they have great jackets to hang on to.

 

[HungaryTom]

Wizard of oz

On another matter, as the owner of 3 Aero Steer jackets...one heavy, one mid, and one oiled (all bought second hand, one from the Aero site)...I love the steer, especially the heavy steer I have. So, even if these jackets were wrongly sold and have to be replaced, the jackets themselves should live on nicely somewhere for someone who wants one. I guess what I'm saying is the misrepresentation is a really bad thing, and I applaud Aero for coming forth--yet the jackets themselves aren't without value: they are still really good things for someone who may want one.

My thoughts exactly who in the hell would part from a good jacket that fits and was built to last??? I only have a steerhide repro A-2 that is getting 20 years old and is still beautiful, the leather is nice while the lining is already falling apart. Authentic look of a pre-owned jacket Memories from my golden years. My dates, my affairs, fun times. Will I toss it away - no Sir. Just put leather balsam on it and it shines as you wish. How heavy? Pretty much. Anyone I put it on told it is heavy. I never weighed it.

Horses are smaller than bulls. The hide of bovines is more WORTHY than of equides. Horses. Bisons and Aurox were the number one in terms of leather when they were still available!!! Wild animals, extensively kept animals have more rugged leather. Leathers differ also by species. Larger animals tend to have thicker hides. common sense. Vegetable tanned front quarter steerhide is beauiful, it has the creases of the animal and all leathers have the 'grain' i.e. the surface structure. I assume Horween tans leathers that aren't split. Horweens chrome tanned leathers also represent a high quality because of their raw material policy and their expertise. You can not go wrong with any of those leathers.

Think of those beautiful vintage Gladstone bags on eBay; Leather is made from bovine hide, they are of a beautiful patina and durable and heavy. After 70 -80 years. Saddles are also done in bovine hide. Leather upholstery for furniture or luxury cars too. For those who wanted hides from horses heavier and bigger than Steer- there is not such a thing.

Anyhow the premium prices of these quality products are justified largely because those are made in Scotland by indigenous workers with salaries and not by slaves working for food in a third world country. Same goes for New York, where you pay the US handmade quality and salaries. Or the New Zeeland, Japanese, English salaries and quality work. The wages and salaries namely represent the largest chunk in the price, why those niche jackets are that expensive. Which they are not. They just represent the value they have. In 10 or 20 or
30 years. Like the Aero sale jackets form the 80s, which are still JACKETS and not a heep of sh**t. These manufacturers simply forget to sew in the planned obsolescence in their jackets. I think their prices are reflecting this authenticity, that they work with a quality tanner and do a quality focussed production, just like the old manufacturers they emulate.

The other thing with an honest seller, the priciest thing represents their best stuff, the second priciest the second best and on and on. FQHH whatever it represented was the heaviest, hardest to work with, the shiniest, most pristine leather with the least surfacie errors, scratches, isnt't it?

Before resending your beloved jacket ponder whether simply claiming back the price difference between the 'horse' and the steer isn't more sensible than all the drama with shipping costs back and forth and the loong wait without any jacket (you have to return yours) for a "horsehide 3 oz"???
Unpleasant situation with aftertastes but nice to see the seller trying hard to work out solutions.

Good excuse to re-order everything in 3oz. horsehide - just for the sake of Oz correctness

 

[Ishmael]

Not that it matters, but having trouble understanding the motive for said fraud....
money seems like a good candidate, since power is off the table methinks.

 

[cloudylemonade]

Holly,

I have written you separately. I suspect no one will want to send in their jacket for inspection. At least
not from this side of the pond. It would probably save everyone a lot of trouble if you could post pictures
of grain and creasing for both kinds of leather and a means, if any, for determining leather weight on a
completed jacket.

I'm working on this now, will post it this morning, but it will be difficult to determine this from photographs. Typically our server was scheduled to be rebooted this morning so I can't access my emails til around 9am, but will be getting back to everyone who has been in touch as soon as I can.

We will try to come up with a satisfactory compromise for anyone in real doubt about their jacket, who is happy with it and wants to hold on to their jacket regardless.

 

[cloudylemonade]

It would help greatly if you gave definitive dates of when the fraud began and when it ended. I also think it is not correct that Aero didn't advertise its leather as 4 oz. Maybe Mark Moye made that claim, but somebody associated with Aero had to say it because it was commonly understood among your customers.

I've never been aware of this, all I know is we do say we stock 'heavy front quarter horsehide' which is true, but believe me if we knew someone was advertising it as 4oz we'd have discussed it then and there.

There really isn't a definitive date, as we're dealing with the actions of a dishonest person. If you are concerned, regardless of date, please email me.