Horween USA and Aero Leather Joint Statement

[Don Tomaso]

Both pics of Salzburg (winter and summer) feature a castle built for psychopathic prince-archbishops at the expense of normal human beings who know how to love, how to feel empathy, and why they should feel guilty when they do something wrong, even if they don't get caught. These cold, deceptive, and evil elite rulers in their hilltop fortress lorded it over the good and decent people of Salzburg for millenia: dominating them, exploiting them, and sacrificing their lives willy-nilly for this or that "war," which, more often than not, was unnecessary and the consequence of deceptive psychopathic leaders vying for control over each other. It's amazing that good and descent people in Salzburg still often do not recognize the evil that beautiful castle symbolizes. The breath-taking architecture is a testament to mind control and the way that psychopathy can warp something like Christianity into the exact opposite of how it started (turning the other cheek, loving one's enemies, and treating others as one would wish to be treated). The good and decent people of Salzburg deserve to be able to recognize evil when they see it, especially when it is as lovely and beautiful as the architecture of Hohensalzburg Castle, right in their midst every day.

Regardless what you took, take it a bit easy from now on, will you?

 

[schitzo]

Regardless what you took, take it a bit easy from now on, will you?

I disagree. I say take some more

 

[Lungomare]

Love the photos Johannes, thank you. Inspiring.

You are welcome! Glad you like them ...

 

[JLStorm]

Yes, you are right! Those two pics are picture postcards, not taken by me, but give a good impression of Salzburg (despite its history).

I know, I go off topic now, but if you are interested in my personal view of Salzburg, have a look here (just a small overview):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chronos-fineart/sets/72157622579566629/

Kind regards,

Johannes

Beautiful photos! My favorites are always sepia and black and white.

Regardless what you took, take it a bit easy from now on, will you?

LOL. I was gonna say something, but his historical knowledge was so impressive that I was actually in awe. Come to a jacket forum and learn wold history...can't beat it!

 

[Peacoat]

And it wasn't just Austria. The same situation prevailed in other parts of Europe, as well as in the UK, although it wasn't known as UK back then. Medieval times were not kind to most of its people. Now back to the story of fine leather jackets made in what is now called Scotland.

 

[bobjones]

This is just so frustrating and shocking. I only came back to reading this forum last week after a multi-year absence, and was stunned by the Mark Moye scenario, then seeing the Will Lauder separation, and now this. It is like watching a ship take one direct torpedo after another...

I bought my alleged FQHH Stockman in March 2008, and an alleged FQHH Highwayman in June 2009, and am now just shaking my head wondering what is going on: do I have a pair of horsehide jackets that I paid for and waited months and months for in good faith? I am not a leather expert, and am so frustrated that is Aero 5,000 miles away precluding a drive over to find out if the jacket is what was advertised, is partially Horsehide, or not at all, and that I have to wait several weeks before I can even communicate with the manufacturer. Even worse, the first few weeks they return in January will undoubtedly be very busy as they are inundated with new orders and other disappointed customers seeking restitution, an exchange, have a ton of questions, etc.

I also am not in a position to mail the jackets back for inspection until the Spring as they are my primary and only Winter jackets, and with the temperatures in the low 30s here I certainly cannot part with them.

If a gun was aimed at me, I'd guess my Stockman is FQHH, but wonder about my Highwayman. The first one Will made in June 2009 did not fit right and had mistakes, so I sent it back for an exchange. The replacement seemed to be a different hide than my Stockman, and Will said it was from a "batch of old FQHH that was carefully stored for about 9 years." I thought how could leather be stored for so long and remain in quality condition, but it was a nice jacket and fit well - and like so many others, was buying on the sterling reputation of Aero. My highwayman jacket is a 42-44 equivalent, and weighs 5.2 lbs, but a lack of an untrained eye prevents me from discerning its true animal origins. There are leather stores here in NY but am at a loss of how to proceed, with several less than stellar options: first I can send pictures to Aero and hope they can definitively ascertain what the hide is on each jacket. If it is not, I would have the choice of either:

1) sending it back to Aero (shipping would be about $125 or more from NY with insurance) for an exchange. If both or one of the jackets are not HH, then new ones would have to be made, requiring a multi-month wait for a new product to be made, plus a multi-year whole new break-in period. These jackets have taken several years to finally become somewhat comfortable, and am not sure if I want to go through that all over again.

2) accepting that they are not HH and just wearing them, living with the disappointment that the jackets I bought in good faith were not what I had expected as I wanted a traditionalist hide used decades ago. This might stress me out to the point where I might just sell them off or ask for a refund of some kind from Aero.

3) request some kind of make-good, like a discount on a new jacket, from Aero.

I guess we are all facing these hobbsean choices, none of which are ideal given the uncertainty/difficulty of determining the jacket hide, and the cost to ship overseas if it is needed. This really shocked me, and I have to say that even 12 hours after first learning about this issue, am still very upset - especially knowing I will have to wait several more weeks just to find out what they might be will only add to the aggravation.

 

[feltfan]

Surely once Aero determines from photos that a jacket was made with a leather other than
the one promised, they will pay for the shipping to replace the jacket?

 

[bobjones]

Surely once Aero determines from photos that a jacket was made with a leather other than
the one promised, they will pay for the shipping to replace the jacket?

Part of this whole conundrum is the tiny size of Aero, and the last thing I'd want to do is they go out of business, which if too many people demand refunds/exchanges for free could be an issue, though TBH I have no idea if that could be a problem for them. I wouldn't want to push too hard for every penny as if they go OOB, there would be no one to service the jackets 5, 10, 25 years down the road...

If the jackets are not FQHH (though TBH I think mine are, assuming other poster's photos of their FQHHs are to be believed over the years here), then an exchange would be desired, but I'd be willing to absorb the shipping costs. Plus I've lost 40 lbs since I bought them so maybe I need them re-sized anyway... They do still pretty much fit, but if they are not HH I'd be REALLY upset.

As a clarification of my earlier post, when I closely compare the grains of the 2 jackets, they are similar, so perhaps my fears are unfounded...I really need Aero or another leather expert to review them carefully.

 

[alex1976]

Alex, can you send an email to holly@aeroleatherclothing.com and we can arrange to have your jacket looked at by Horween, at our expense. If you could send me your phone number we'll call you to make arrangements.

sure i can send ma jacket to U
but i must wait so long till GILES send it back to me

peace

the only thing what i want is a HORSEHIDE JACKET for my money!
and the certainty which hide MY jacket is!

 

[Sloan1874]

I don't think G's last comment runs true, really, does it? Otherwise why would this problem exist in the first place? Personally, I'm and only going on the tone of your correspondence, if I was you, I would've held off posting on here until you got your jacket back first...

 

[Paden]

Alex 1976, schon mal was von Datenschutz gehört? :eusa_doh:
Ohne Zustimmung kannst Du nicht einfach Daten ins Netz setzen, schon gar nicht PNs.
Kannst froh sein, wenn Giles Dich nicht vor den Kadi zerrt.
Und wie es in den Wald hinein schallt, schallt es heraus.

 

[Sloan1874]

Alex 1976, schon mal was von Datenschutz gehört? :eusa_doh:
Ohne Zustimmung kannst Du nicht einfach Daten ins Netz setzen, schon gar nicht PNs.
Kannst froh sein, wenn Giles Dich nicht vor den Kadi zerrt.
Und wie es in den Wald hinein schallt, schallt es heraus.

Paden's right, though I think the more likely result is that your wait for your jacket will be an extended one...

 

[alex1976]

ok
werd es löschen!

 

[Peter Mackin]

Giles seems a nice guy to deal with !!!!!!!!!! him @ Will together,,,,who would want to buy anywere else

 

[alex1976]

i think i get my jacket back from giles!

sometimes

 

[wdw]

At least it gives you a warm feeling about buying from Aero direct. Can't fault their current customer service.

 

[Sloan1874]

and i think i never ever getting my jacket back from giles!

It's your property, Alex. If I was in your position now, I would make it my job to make Giles want to give it you back...

 

[alex1976]

i wrote him....but i can only wait!

now

 

[Sloan1874]

i wrote him....but i can only wait!

now

Have you tried phoning him?

 

[hpalapdog]

and i think i never ever getting my jacket back from giles!

What about forwarding your photo to Horween the tannery where the leather came from ? It seems detailed enough.