Horween Chromexel Steer not dyed all the way through

[sshack]

FredS that's how it works. It scuffs and ages a little faster and works the way dyes on many vintage hides do.

Yes, CXL definitely ages faster. But I wish that this "aging" was consistent. As I stated before, some batches of the CXL leather seem to have a lot more dye penetration than other batches. I might post some pics soon showing what I mean...

 

[Seb Lucas]

Well yeah, like many hand made products batches vary. I guess the trick is to try to get one made from a batch with the qualities you like.

 

[Sloan1874]

If they've started, then they'll have finished by now, as it only takes a few hours. If you don't want that hide now, best to talk to them before they post it, as that's when the hassles really start.

They'll be able to sell it on for a few quid less and you'll be able to get what you probably should have asked for in the first place.

I think it's something like five to six hours for an experienced seamstress to put a jacket together. Given the mad reductions that AL are selling their stuff for, if you change your mind later, you should be able to pick it up for a song!

 

[FredS]

Well yeah, like many hand made products batches vary. I guess the trick is to try to get one made from a batch with the qualities you like.

Well one would expect that with a famous name and reputation like Horween has and especially with their famous old traditional Chromexel tanning method, the quality of the dye would be superlative and would be colorfast.
Why do they hand rub the dye in instead of drum dyeing it? Drum dyeing ensures that the dye penetrates right through whereas hand rubbing only gives a thin coating of dye on the top that wears off within a relatively short time. So I don't see what the advantage of hand rubbing the dye in is. I want a black jacket that stays black. If I wanted a brown jacket I would have ordered a brown jacket. I don't see any advantage in it at all unless you like your leather jacket to look all scuffed and with patches of the surface loosing their original color. I am seriously thinking of just canceling my order altogether now. I was under the impression that this Horweens Chromexcell was the best leather there was for jackets but I don't want a jacket that looks like a cheap old secondhand jacket within a few months.

Ps. I suppose I could always use ordinary black shoe polish on it every now and again.

 

[cordwangler]

I don't want a jacket that looks like a cheap old secondhand jacket within a few months.

Ps. I suppose I could always use ordinary black shoe polish on it every now and again.

So it turns out you don't like this kind of leather after all. Hardly worth trying to turn disappointment into a searing indictment of the inherent qualities of a certain process/product, right?!

As others have suggested, there are many other types of leather to choose from. Enjoy the journey.

 

[Capesofwrath]

The Aero jackets made with this leather used to have a label that said they were made with leather tanned with 1920's techniques for workwear and that colour loss was to be expected from time to time. My over ten years old black Veste de Rallye has that label and has a couple of minor scuffs on the arm where the chocolate brown underdye is showing a little. Unless the quality of the leather has really gone down I don't think it will happen quickly though.

Personally I like that and it is is indicative of old leather coats made with old style tanned leather. Most black leather up until the fifties was brown and overdyed I think.

I don't think Aero puts that label in the jackets anymore. I don't have another Aero Horween FQHH one at the moment but I traded a 2010 one in recently and can't remember seeing it on that when I had it. I don't remember it on the two they sent me a couple of months ago which I returned as unsuitable either. Is it still there on the latest jackets?

 

[Sloan1874]

Well one would expect that with a famous name and reputation like Horween has and especially with their famous old traditional Chromexel tanning method, the quality of the dye would be superlative and would be colorfast.
Why do they hand rub the dye in instead of drum dyeing it? Drum dyeing ensures that the dye penetrates right through whereas hand rubbing only gives a thin coating of dye on the top that wears off within a relatively short time. So I don't see what the advantage of hand rubbing the dye in is. I want a black jacket that stays black. If I wanted a brown jacket I would have ordered a brown jacket. I don't see any advantage in it at all unless you like your leather jacket to look all scuffed and with patches of the surface loosing their original color. I am seriously thinking of just canceling my order altogether now. I was under the impression that this Horweens Chromexcell was the best leather there was for jackets but I don't want a jacket that looks like a cheap old secondhand jacket within a few months.

Ps. I suppose I could always use ordinary black shoe polish on it every now and again.

You're talking as if the jacket will look as if it's fit for the charity shop the moment it gets a scratch. Not so. It'll take on the character you give it with wear, just a little quicker than the old jackets of the 30s and 40s. FWIW. I have a Horween FQHH brown jacket - just as many others here have - that I've owned for a year and it's stunning: the wear and grain it's developed gives it a unique look that people pay into the £1,000s for on the high street, and complete strangers have complimented me on.
As the others have said, it sounds as if you're criticising Horween for your own mistake which is unfair on the company. It's down to you to investigate the various properties of different hides - if you wanted a black leather that stays resolutely black, you should have asked AL or done a bit of Googling first. To me, I think the black/brown base could be really interesting and you might be missing out on what could be a rather nice piece. Your call.

 

[FredS]

So it turns out you don't like this kind of leather after all. Hardly worth trying to turn disappointment into a searing indictment of the inherent qualities of a certain process/product, right?!

As others have suggested, there are many other types of leather to choose from. Enjoy the journey.

Hardly a searing indictment. I don't know if I like this leather or not...that's why I am posting...to get reactions and experiences from people who have a jacket made out of this particular leather. I want to hear stories that will convince me that my choice is the right one. So far most of what I hear has only confirmed what I feared. I was not aware of this thin dye layer and only started getting concerned when the brown color started showing through the sample piece of leather I have. Up until then I had based my choice for this leather on what I had read here on this forum and other forums and I never came across any stories about how this leather is not colorfast.

 

[FredS]

You're talking as if the jacket will look as if it's fit for the charity shop the moment it gets a scratch. Not so. It'll take on the character you give it with wear, just a little quicker than the old jackets of the 30s and 40s. FWIW. I have a Horween FQHH brown jacket - just as many others here have - that I've owned for a year and it's stunning: the wear and grain it's developed gives it a unique look that people pay into the £1,000s for on the high street, and complete strangers have complimented me on.
As the others have said, it sounds as if you're criticising Horween for your own mistake which is unfair on the company. It's down to you to investigate the various properties of different hides - if you wanted a black leather that stays resolutely black, you should have asked AL or done a bit of Googling first. To me, I think the black/brown base could be really interesting and you might be missing out on what could be a rather nice piece. Your call.

Thanks..that's more like what I need to hear. Sometimes it takes a bit of rudimentary prodding and doubting the quality of a product to get the correct and real answers.

 

[pipvh]

It's purely subjective. I love the idea that the black will wear off to expose a brown underlayer, because I happen to think that black leather wearing down to black or grey looks bad. Can't explain or justify it, so I won't...

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Just contact Alexander and inform them that you are running late with your research. Inform them of your fears and see what they may recommend. Horween sells many of these hides all the time to customers satisfaction. It seems clear that you wouldn't be one of them...so what are you waiting for? [huh]
HD

 

[FredS]

The Aero jackets made with this leather used to have a label that said they were made with leather tanned with 1920's techniques for workwear and that colour loss was to be expected from time to time. My over ten years old black Veste de Rallye has that label and has a couple of minor scuffs on the arm where the chocolate brown underdye is showing a little. Unless the quality of the leather has really gone down I don't think it will happen quickly though.

Personally I like that and it is is indicative of old leather coats made with old style tanned leather. Most black leather up until the fifties was brown and overdyed I think.

I don't think Aero puts that label in the jackets anymore. I don't have another Aero Horween FQHH one at the moment but I traded a 2010 one in recently and can't remember seeing it on that when I had it. I don't remember it on the two they sent me a couple of months ago which I returned as unsuitable either. Is it still there on the latest jackets?

Thanks...that sounds a lot more positive already. By the way....what is actually meant by "Overdye"? I have googled the term and find nothing mentioned about it in relation to leather. By the sound of it it sounds like it could mean leather being dyed with another color then the original color or leather being dyed again to restore the original color.

 

[sshack]

I have a feeling this color fade is worse on the black leather CXL. The brown leather probably masks the color fade and blends in...

On my black CXL FQHH jacket, there are already faded areas around the shoulders and underarms... and the most abuse it has seen is basically getting in and out of my car a half-dozen times, lol. But again-- it's annoying how an older CXL black leather sample I have is much more fade resistant. I've put it through a lot of extreme twisting/scratching and it still looks great.

I don't mind color loss/aging in a few years, after all, this jacket is supposed to last a looong time. But if this much color loss happens after a few months, how will it look in a few years??? Yikes.

Has Horween changed their dye process recently?

 

[FredS]

Double posted in error

 

[FredS]

It's purely subjective. I love the idea that the black will wear off to expose a brown underlayer, because I happen to think that black leather wearing down to black or grey looks bad. Can't explain or justify it, so I won't...

Kewl I can appreciate that.

 

[FredS]

Just contact Alexander and inform them that you are running late with your research. Inform them of your fears and see what they may recommend. Horween sells many of these hides all the time to customers satisfaction. It seems clear that you wouldn't be one of them...so what are you waiting for? [huh]
HD

I did contact them about 1 and a half week ago about this issue. I spoke to Will who told me that with normal wear the color would hold for at least 30 years and that it is a fantastic leather and that it will only start looking better and nicer all the time as the years go by. That convinced me at the time but now I started worrying again as the sample piece I have been rubbing and playing with is now already showing a lot of the black fading. I guess I have to start changing my mind about wanting a jacket to stay perfectly black and start appreciating the qualities of this leather. Change my outlook you might say. For that I need to hear other peoples experiences with the black chromexcell.

 

[FredS]

I have a feeling this color fade is worse on the black leather CXL. The brown leather probably masks the color fade and blends in...

On my black CXL FQHH jacket, there are already faded areas around the shoulders and underarms... and the most abuse it has seen is basically getting in and out of my car a half-dozen times, lol. But again-- it's annoying how an older CXL black leather sample I have is much more fade resistant. I've put it through a lot of extreme twisting/scratching and it still looks great.

I don't mind color loss/aging in a few years, after all, this jacket is supposed to last a looong time. But if this much color loss happens after a few months, how will it look in a few years??? Yikes.

Has Horween changed their dye process recently?

Well you obviously share my concern as you are experiencing color loss on your black chromexell to an extent that you don't sound altogether too happy with that process. Could you post a photo of your jacket ?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I did contact them about 1 and a half week ago about this issue. I spoke to Will who told me that with normal wear the color would hold for at least 30 years and that it is a fantastic leather and that it will only start looking better and nicer all the time as the years go by. That convinced me at the time but now I started worrying again as the sample piece I have been rubbing and playing with is now already showing a lot of the black fading. I guess I have to start changing my mind about wanting a jacket to stay perfectly black and start appreciating the qualities of this leather. Change my outlook you might say. For that I need to hear other peoples experiences with the black chromexcell.

Surely Will wouldn't steer anyone wrong about hide would he...??

 

[FredS]

Surely Will wouldn't steer anyone wrong about hide would he...??

No he wouldn't I'm sure

 

[Sloan1874]

Surely Will wouldn't steer anyone wrong about hide would he...??

lol