Horween Chromexel Steer not dyed all the way through

[FredS]

I ordered a jacket in Horween Chromexell Black Steer and received a sample of this leather. What worries me is that although it is aniline dyed it is done so by hand (hand-rubbed) and not in vats with the result that the dye is only a thin layer on the top and not right through the hide. In vat dyed aniline hides the hide has been dyed all the way through with the same color thus the hide is the same color on both the front and back.
I took a blunt knife and lightly scraped over the surface of the sample piece of leather and with minimal effort it scrapes off the black top layer of dye exposing a chocolate brown color underneath. The suede side of the leather is also this chocolate brown color. So my worries are that this Horweens Chromexell Black Steer will scratch and scuff very easily damaging the black color and will look ugly very quickly with the chocolate brown color being exposed so easily. I wanted a jacket with a leather where the dye goes right through the entire hide and with most aniline dyes this is the case except with Horween's it seems.
Are my worries justified? Does anyone have any experience with their jackets made of Horweens Chromexel Black Steer or Brown Steer where the issue that I worry about has manifested itself?
I don't understand why Horweens Chromexell is so highly rated then if the dye is only a thin coating on the top that wears off so easily instead of being dyed right through. Dyed right through would surely be indicative of much better quality surely and would ensure that the jacket remains the original color it was dyed in.

 

[handymike]

I don't think the AL jackets have been around long enough for folks to really tell how they will age. The Aero ones look great after many years...although I've
only seen pics of the steer myself.

 

[FredS]

I don't think the AL jackets have been around long enough for folks to really tell how they will age. The Aero ones look great after many years...although I've
only seen pics of the steer myself.

Like you say Aero also makes some jackets in the same leather and it's not so much a question about aging but more about how easily the dye gets damaged by scraping against something for instance like against a branch of a tree or suchlike. Or maybe just sitting at the bar a couple of times with your elbows on the barcounter will quickly scuff through the thin layer of dye and expose the brown underneath.

 

[Sloan1874]

I hope to visit Horween when I take a trip to Chicago later this month, I'll ask them about the aniline dying process, see what they say.

 

[Ekphrastic]

I believe the hide you're talking about is called "overdye." If I understand correctly, it's actually supposed to behave the way you describe. A member of the forum recently purchased a jacket from Johnson Leathers in that hide--maybe he can clarify things.

 

[FredS]

I hope to visit Horween when I take a trip to Chicago later this month, I'll ask them about the aniline dying process, see what they say.

On their site it mentions that the dyes are hand rubbed in. But in that case it only creates a thin layer of dye on top and does not go right through like when the hides are vat dyed.
And looking at the sample of leather I have that can clearly be seen. The sample piece also scuffs very easily and then the brown shows through the black dye.
I have another leather jacket which is vat dyed and the leather of this jacket is black on both sides and the dye has penetrated right through the leather completely so even if you scuff it it will remain black.
I have sent Horween an e-mail about this as well.

 

[FredS]

I believe the hide you're talking about is called "overdye." If I understand correctly, it's actually supposed to behave the way you describe. A member of the forum recently purchased a jacket from Johnson Leathers in that hide--maybe he can clarify things.

But if it is supposed to behave that way that isn't a good thing to my mind. How can it be? As far as I can see it won't enhance the looks of the leather in any way...I want a black jacket that remains black, not half brownish blackish after a while.

 

[Sloan1874]

It's not that it's 'not good', it's just a characteristic of that particular hide, it doesn't mean you're going to rub through the leather in double quick time. I think a lot of people on here would be interested in a black jacket that takes on a brown character over time - it's like the blue-black goat that LVC and Aero have used of late. As it is, Horween's FQHH will lighten and change with every knock and scratch, that's kinda the point. [huh] If you were looking for a hide that retains its 'newness', goat is your best bet.

 

[FredS]

It's not that it's 'not good', it's just a characteristic of that particular hide, it doesn't mean you're going to rub through the leather in double quick time. I think a lot of people on here would be interested in a black jacket that takes on a brown character over time - it's like the blue-black goat that LVC and Aero have used of late. As it is, Horween's FQHH will lighten and change with every knock and scratch, that's kinda the point. [huh] If you were looking for a hide that retains its 'newness', goat is your best bet.

Well it's a jacket I want to wear when biking and also for casual wear. Maybe I should have gone for a Vanson but the Vanson is a bit heavy for casual wear. It's great just for biking of course. But the point is...that's the type of leather I was thinking of...a leather that remains black. At least I presume the Vanson remains black as do most black biker jackets. Not sure if the Horweens is actually a good choice for a biker jacket then. I also have a sample of that goat in black. I don't like the goat...it has a sort of plasticky/rubbery kind of feel to it and it does not have a nice relaxed drape.

 

[Sloan1874]

I think there are those on here that can tell you the difference. But if you scroll down to the used section of Aero's sale page, there are a few biker jackets there which can give you a good idea how Horween's standard FQHH and steer ages: http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/product-detail.php?id=1810

 

[handymike]

Al offers Many kinds of Steerhide that may behave differently. Maybe you could sample the "smooth" steer or "biker" steer.....

 

[FredS]

I think there are those on here that can tell you the difference. But if you scroll down to the used section of Aero's sale page, there are a few biker jackets there which can give you a good idea how Horween's standard FQHH and steer ages: http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/product-detail.php?id=1810

Thanks...yes that jacket looks nicely aged. My main worry is that the Horween's dye is so thin...just a thin layer of dye instead of right through dye. It just seems to me like the thin layer of hand rubbed dye is a cheapie method and the original color won't last long and any scratches or scrapes will show up very easily whilst with the right through vat dyed leather the original color can't wear off and will last for ever. To me the latter just seems more desirable and more indicative of a more expensive and durable method of dyeing. Vat dyed leathers can age beautifully as well whilst retaining all their original color and a scratch or scrape won't be seen as easily because the color underneath will still be black.
But I guess then the reason that Horween's do the hand rubbed thin layer of dye is to have it wear through purposefully for a particular look although that particular leather is mainly used for shoes as far as I can gather and having shoes scuff or scratch easily with a different color showing through can't be too desirable imo. For a jacket maybe yes, for some people.

 

[FredS]

Double posted in error

 

[FredS]

Al offers Many kinds of Steerhide that may behave differently. Maybe you could sample the "smooth" steer or "biker" steer.....

Thanks...yes that's a thought although I am afraid that they have started on my jacket already.

 

[wdw]

If they've started, then they'll have finished by now, as it only takes a few hours. If you don't want that hide now, best to talk to them before they post it, as that's when the hassles really start.

They'll be able to sell it on for a few quid less and you'll be able to get what you probably should have asked for in the first place.

 

[sshack]

I think there is a lack of consistency in the horween CXL leather. I have several samples of the FQHH (all received years apart) as well as a recent Highwayman. On a black FQHH sample from 5-6 years ago, the dye is very stable and a can't scratch it off. On a recent FQHH sample, the dye is very thin and easily scratches off. On my Highwayman, which I've worn only a few times outside, there are already streaks of greyish leather where the black dye has rubbed off. Some may say this is just a part of the "patina" process. They're correct, but I'm concerned about the rate of this patina! I'd like my jacket to look 20 years old in twenty years, not 3 months!

 

[jglf]

Chromexcel is not the leather for you. It will show wear marks very quickly. I personally like the character that develops with this leather. It is by no means an inferior leather and is considered one of the best leathers you can buy. I have an AL smooth steerhide that is drum dyed all the way through. It is very soft and medium weight. It will not show "character" marks anytime soon.

 

[Peacoat]

Let's not confuse Chromexcel tanning with the over-dye process. They are two separate creatures. The over-dye is what the OP seems to have the problem with.

 

[sshack]

Let's not confuse Chromexcel tanning with the over-dye process. They are two separate creatures. The over-dye is what the OP seems to have the problem with.

I thought the issue was the staining (aniline hand rubbed coat) was coming off too soon? That's how CXL is dyed, I thought. So that's part of the OP's issue, no?

 

[Seb Lucas]

FredS that's how it works. It scuffs and ages a little faster and works the way dyes on many vintage hides do.