Horween and other leather companies

[Gambetto]

http://horween.com/index.php/leathers/

Has anyone toured the Horween factory? What are some other leatherers for famous jacket makers? Where does Aero's new already tanned kudu hides come from? Obviously the hides themselves come from Africa, but which leatherer tans and refines them?

Is the cost of horse hide and other exotic hides like kudu a big part of the reason that leather jackets are so expensive?

If so, why are steer hide jackets about the same price as horsehide?

It seems like maybe the main cost of fine leather jackets is a result of the amount of work put into making the jacket by machinists. Not really sure.

 

[Sillyrib]

Horween’s kudu leather is essentially heavily oiled and hand treated calfskin, done in the same procedure as shell cordovan. Thicker and more dense than the norm, kudu is definitely a rugged and everlasting leather.
-Plainsman Chromexcel – A duller version with a more pronounced grain character
-Kudu Chromexcel – Plainsman that has been hand-curried (oiled by hand).

Leather as a commodity has gone up with the price of transport(Oil). The supply of the type of hide is a consideration but I think overall weight and quality is the overiding factor in the cost of the raw material. That said the processing of the raw material is an involved and secret process and only a few tanneries can and go to these lengths for good chrome and veg tanned hides. Horween being amongst the best in the world.

Manufacturing outside the 3rd world and China is declining rapidly and I think the only areas which will continue are artisan crafting and high tech/specialised industries, unless supported through government funding/tariffs. Costs of supporting a staff to produce jackets in Scotland must be high. Not to mention making leather in the near north side of Chicago. I think these two examples show a couple of companies where people are dedicated to the craft and end product over the maximizing of profits. That said, I do see more and more artisan crafting coming back to the us in everything from shoes to beer to farming. People are willing to pay more for the best but unless you can find that niche market it would be hard to start your own jacket making operation.

 

[Hammer Down]

My wife keeps telling me that in a really bad recession or a depression folks opt for quality and not cheap crappy products. It seems counter-intuitive, but trends in the past speak for themselves.

Those with enough money to buy luxury items like high-end more expensive beers, wine, leather jackets, etc., make due with less and have less patience for shoddy craftsmanship. We will most likely see this trend continue into 2012 and beyond. I have noticed that in America even wines under $20 a bottle are becoming much better as of late.

I have also noticed that Americans have begun to really appreciate the expert craftsmanship of everything from jackets to motorcycles to houses made back when quality really meant something. Even modern houses are being upgraded with an eye to long term aesthetic quality. For instance, several of my friends have recently upgraded from carpet to exotic hardwood floors. A renewed interest in well made products with local craftsman and farmers is coming back into fashion. Also, people are growing their own food in gardens with heirloom seeds that corporations like Monsanto are trying hard to stop through draconian legislation regarding seeds, etc. Europeans have always been leery of GMO seeds, but Americans are finally catching on.

Leather jackets are no different. It seems to me that Aero's business is growing, and other custom-made leather jacket companies are popping up around the world.

I say, kudos to that! Scaling down from third world sweat shop stuff to craft-oriented products is always a plus in my book, especially with the Internet to help connect companies and customers who care about such things.

 

[schitzo]

I think you wife is right. Apparently in a recession beauticians get a lot more business too, which suggests people are concerned with 'keeping up appearances'. Opting for quality over cheaper products could be an extension of that. As Florentino Perez (the Real Madrid president) once commented, 'Sometimes in life the most expensive things are actually the cheapest'. Sure he was talking about footballers but the analogy is transferable. For example, £500 shell cordovan shoes might last you a decade+ whereas a £100 pair from the shopping centre will need to be replaced much much sooner

 

[gdc]

This is interesting:
http://vimeo.com/4814754

 

[Sir Jacket]

Aero makes its jackets in Scotland, where labour (and manufacturing premises) are relatively cheap for the UK and Europe more broadly. These are the kind of high quality items that (thankfully) just can't be manufactured by sweatshop labour in China.

SJ

 

[schitzo]

Aero makes its jackets in Scotland, where labour (and manufacturing premises) are relatively cheap for the UK and Europe more broadly. These are the kind of high quality items that (thankfully) just can't be manufactured by sweatshop labour in China.

SJ

You might be surprised what can be accomplished in 'Chinese sweatshops' as you put it. For instance there are expensive labels who already have their goods produced there to a high standard - for example Hugo Boss.

Assuming what you said was true, and I don't think it is, why would you be thankful for that?

 

[ButteMT61]

I'd wager a guess that "thankfully" means these fine craftspeople can't be replaced by cheap underpaid, overworked, and possibly less skilled workers in China (or elsewhere). I've seen the high end makers Chinese goods that are the "higher standard" and while some of it is nice, it's nice assembly line gear, not one-off custom. It's funny because the one-off stuff is actually somewhat imperfect in comparison. That's what I like about it. You can tell when a machine makes something vs a human - a skilled human.
Apologies to Sir J - I don't speak for him, but I feel his meaning (I think)

 

[gdc]

A good friend of mine has has a business which imports products he has made to spec in China. He told me that the Chinese suppliers are very good at reproducing things in large volume at low cost but not so good when it comes to making changes. Changes require a supervisory trip to the plant and strong negotiating skills. I see it as an apples to oranges thing. Some people are happy with mass produced department store clothing but there will probably always be a market for people discriminating enough to see the value in a one-off garment made with little compromise.

 

[ButteMT61]

Then have a look at this. Not what I imagine happens in the third-world shops...

http://vimeo.com/4814754

 

[schitzo]

With the emergence of the Chinese middle class, a demographic that continues to grow, one of the growth markets there has been European high end goods, which obviously have to be imported making them even more expensive. Evidently affluent Chinese consumers also want something better and are willing to pay for it. In which case I'd say it won't be too long before manufacturers over there figure out how to produce this type of stuff for themselves. As a consumer my primary concern is the product and if it matches my expectations then I don't care where it was made or by whom. So if China can do it cheaper I'll go with that, and I'd expect most people to see it that way, at least in private. At the minute a lot of companies seem to trade off the stigma attached to 'made in China' and so you see websites going to great pains to point out that their goods are definitely not 'cheap Chinese knock offs'. Personally, whenever i read something like that for me it smacks of insecurity and nervousness

 

[ButteMT61]

I'll go you one better - I don't like China. The country, not the people, per se. I won't buy anything from there if/when I can help it. I'm happy you stopped short of calling us racists, as that's usually the response. I just happen to have a quirk in that I'd rather my WWII jacket repro's not come from a place like that. I don't consider China an ally or friend to the US or the world for that matter. Other places are OK with me. However, if I can, I buy US. It's tougher these days, but still sometimes possible. I'd rather save for an item that costs more than buy cheap stuff made overseas if I have that option.

 

[Hammer Down]

Okay, you asked for it. Butte, you complain when I get political and yet you just wrote a highly political statement and evidently you feel fine about that. So here you go . . . Merry Christmas. Below, you will find some little known truths about China that upper middle class Americans like you have been brainwashed to ignore by our media and our skewed educational system.

China has been controlled by England and the USA since the Opium Wars. Western globalists control China and they are slowly making the US and England like China, in terms of social control mechanisms in the culture. Communism was created by bankers as controlled opposition to their version of "capitalism." Don't blame me for bringing this stuff up. You guys started it.

Next time you feel superior to another country, guys, it's worth paying attention to why that country is the way it is. Americans are brainwashed to think of China as a giant sweatshop that is separate from Western control.

The truth is simple: China is a sweatshop FOR the West and Western bankers are getting the lion's share of the profits generated in China, just like they did starting in 1946 in Japan, and later in Korea after the Korean war. It's all a giant globalist racket, and eventually the USA will be downgraded to Third World Status, after we completely bankrupt ourselves fighting wars for globalist interests.

At that point, our national parks will be privatized and the natural resources will be liquidated (timber, minerals, and oil). In fact, there is enough oil under the Rocky Mountains to fuel the USA for a century. The National Parks are a scam. I'm glad we have them, but it's worth remembering that globalists think of them as a "savings account" for globalist bankers to "cash" after the US is knocked to its knees in debt bankruptcy like Greece has been today. The Arctic Wilderness Preserve is just a way for globalist bankers to cash in later and keep out competitors right now. Environmentalism was certainly not invented by globalists, but they infiltrated groups like Greenpeace and the Audubon Society and co-opted these groups to help create a "green bubble" that will be milked just like the housing bubble was.

As for our industrial base, all of our heavy industry was moved out of the country years ago, when Al Gore and George HW Bush teamed up secretly to push through NAFTA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

[video=youtube;apaUuqU89jQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apaUuqU89jQ[/video]

http://www.infowars.com/cia-manages-drug-trade-mexican-official-says/

[video=youtube;YQiW_l848t8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQiW_l848t8&list=PL463AA90FD04EC7A2&index=1&feature=plpp_video[/video]

 

[schitzo]

I don't like or trust the Chinese government either, which I assume is what you mean when you say you don't like the country? But I could say the same thing about my own government and yours too. When it comes to international affairs there are no friends, only shared interests - but i do get how China and Russian in particular aggravate others when it comes to things like UN resolutions for example. I spent a year in Beijing and I found the people to be unassuming, humble, generous and welcoming in a way that I know Londoners are not. After that experience my perceptions of the country changed and now I am careful to distinguish between the government and the people

 

[HoosierDaddy]

...any little opening. :tongue:

 

[too much coffee]

Hey HD............how 'bout them Colts without Manning huh?


coffee

 

[schitzo]

that's interesting you should bring this up Coffee. Colts are my team purely off the back of watching Peyton who first got me interested in the game maybe 7 years ago ish. I've followed him and them ever since. I actually have a ticket for the Wembley game this year and will go there hoping to see the Patriots get spanked. Do you think there's any chance the Rams could deliver?

 

[gdc]

Hey HD............how 'bout them Colts without Manning huh?


coffee

Anybody but Duh Bears.

 

[Kenal0]

I have been thru the Horween facility. If you ever get a chance for a tour it is well worth your time. If you don't believe in doing things the old ffashioned way with real craftsman, you will change your mind when you see this place. It is like walking into a time warp. Very interesting
place and unfortunately not many left.

Kenal0

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Hey HD............how 'bout them Colts without Manning huh?


coffee

Well...Manning was backed by those Rockerfellas and kept ginned up on juice from Asian flower seed supplied by horseback through Horween and hand tanned. Carried through Hoosierland by neutered undercover mules. The Packers found out about it..and enlisted several Bears to intercept. After that failure the billionairs and beer barons saw who was russian and who wasn't. They finally bought the man...manned the yachts and Manning left us all floating down sh*t creek without a paddle.
HD