Horse, steer or cowhide? Can you tell by looking? Just for fun… (picture heavy!)

[yellowfever]

I got carried away with a post on another thread about how to tell horse from steer/cow. My (short) view: read the label, if it doesn‘t say horsehide it (very, very probably) isn’t. if there is no label left you’d really need to send to a lab for DNA testing to be certain it’s horse. But, regardless, don’t get caught up in the horsehide cult - it‘s not everything.

The thread is here if you want to bore yourself with my much longer view (And my thoughts on Sam Walker jackets/some pictures)

Sam Walker Highway Man

Hey Folks, I just acquired this Sam Walker Highway Man a couple of days ago. I've read most of the threads on this forum about these jackets and their checkered past. I'm struggling to determine if it's steer or horse hide. It weighs in at 5.8lbs and feels very stiff but not to the point were...

www.thefedoralounge.com

But hey maybe I’m doing you all a disservice saying that even well informed members here can’t really do any better in the long run than chance when trying to tell horse from steer/cow by just looking at it. I know we‘ve had fun quizzes on this before. The main conclusion I took from it (apart from how hard it is to reliably tell the difference from photos, other than obvious ones like goat leather with its distinctive grain) was just how awesome steerhide leather often looks!

Now I’ve seen at least one lab claiming to be able to reliably tell leathers apart via examination under a microscope (rather than the more definitive DNA testing of a sample). I’m sure it’s cheaper this way, but I’d like to see their double blind tested data backing up their claims (if they’ve done that to validate their accuracy claims, as you hope they would have).

So, just for a bit of fun, a in no way scientifically valid quiz follows. I’m going to post (a lot - pic heavy be warned!) various photos below . See if you can tell which, if any, photo(s) is/are horsehide and which are steerhide/cowhide. Bonus points if you can say which photo(s) is Vanson competition weight cowhide (if any are). Answers to follow in due course….

In a change from previous quizzes and to give you the best chance to play super accurate lab guy, rather than simply close up photos of the leather, most of these photos are heavily magnified (only via phone zoom! No lab kit here!). So put on your white coat and give it your best shot… answers will follow in due course.

(1)

(2)

(3)

(4)

(5)

(6)

 

[yellowfever]

(7)

(8)

(9)

(10)

(11)

 

[Canuck Panda]

I can't tell by photos. But in my hands yes. Surprisingly I find bison is actually very close to what horse hides feels like. There is noticeable difference in hand feel between horse and cow/steer, but if I am blind folded, I cannot tell the difference between horsehide or bison.

 

[yellowfever]

(12)

(13)

(14)

(15)

(16)

(17)

 

[yellowfever]

(18)

(19)

(20)

(21)

(22)

 

[yellowfever]

(23)

(24)

(25)

(26)

(27)

(28)

 

[yellowfever]

(29)

(30)

(31)

(32)

(33)

(34)

 

[yellowfever]

I can't tell by photos. But in my hands yes. Surprisingly I find bison is actually very close to what horse hides feels like. There is noticeable difference in hand feel between horse and cow/steer, but if I am blind folded, I cannot tell the difference between horsehide or bison.

I’d probably want to see the double blind trial data first, before suggesting you open a touch based leather provenance testing service… but I don’t doubt there is as you say a difference in temper between different animal leathers, some more obvious than others. But reliably untangling this from other effects on temper/feel like tanning, thickness, finish, age and conditioning status and other considerations may be rather tricky when dealing with leather jackets unknown to you especially with leathers that are not vastly different in feel.... but hey I for one hope there is money to be made simply fondling leather jackets all day! A TFL dream come true

 

[Carlos840]

IMO these pics are too zoomed in and too blurry to tell anything.
Pic 1 looks like a 90s Vanson to me.

 

[yellowfever]

IMO these pics are too zoomed in and too blurry to tell anything.
Pic 1 looks like a 90s Vanson to me.

Well the zooming in is a rather imperfect/bit of fun/amateurish attempt to see if the technique one lab claims to use (high magnification) might be informative to us.

I agree with you that some of the photos are rather blurry so maybe not so useful. But i found at least some of these to be clear enough and giving a surprising level of detailL I find the differences they show to be rather fascinating. It does make me think (despite my earlier scepticism) that the lab using high magnification may indeed get good results… (and far cheaper than DNA testing) but then I know which is which, so it could simply be me back fitting what I know to the photos!

 

[Robson]

HorseHide Highwayman

 

[morrison2951]

Nice Highwayman!

 

[ton312]

I have never been able to tell the difference. Same maker.
Cowhide:

Horsehide:

My feeling has always been, if it looks good, I don’t care what beast it came from.

 

[AeroFan_07]

Quite a bit of macro photography there. I used a light box for this sort of thing years back.

I do like the concept, it's fun to look so in detail, but other than seeing how grainy the hides really are, it's hard to tell all that much.

 

[Canuck Panda]

I’d probably want to see the double blind trial data first, before suggesting you open a touch based leather provenance testing service… but I don’t doubt there is as you say a difference in temper between different animal leathers, some more obvious than others. But reliably untangling this from other effects on temper/feel like tanning, thickness, finish, age and conditioning status and other considerations may be rather tricky when dealing with leather jackets unknown to you especially with leathers that are not vastly different in feel.... but hey I for one hope there is money to be made simply fondling leather jackets all day! A TFL dream come true

I don't know about fondling jackets but I sure like to find out how I can get paid to fondle hot leathered up catwomen everyday. JK.
FWIW, all leather is gonna feel a bit different than the other in my experience. I wouldn't say one is better than the other. Although my preference would be softer and thicker leather than stiff and thin leather.
I fell into this rabbit hole believing horsehide is supreme and everything else were not worthy. Time has proven me wrong. But I am also back on the horsehide wagon again. Not because it is better but it is more "efficient" material for garment. I am not sure if that is the right word to describe. But as far as I understand it, cows weren't plentiful back in the depression era. People had tough times, not beef for dinner more spam for dinner. Somehow the garment industry found ways to be resilient and used whatever was available to them. And turned out to be a great choice too. The same is today. Premium cowhide cost more per square feet than any other leather at wholesale. Period. I don't agree with more expensive material is better. Especially for jackets. Most of its value is in the person (time) who made the jacket. I also used to think cotton jackets were not as worthy as leather jackets. But it still took the maker the same time to make that. So I changed.
Anyways, go leather!

 

[photo2u]

In the old days, it was easier to tell the leathers apart. With the new tanning methods, is getting harder. My friend who works at a tannery in Veracruz showed pieces of leather that look very similar, one was horse the other was bovine, I was not able to tell them apart. I have one of the early HH Pegasus jacket. I believe it was made in France? The horse is very smooth and supple, takes water abuse like a champ. I love it. Then I have some horse from GW and do not love it. My favorite 50s buco leather pants were so very soft. They got wet in a rainy ride and are stiff as hell. That has never happened to me before with newer horsehide. Go figure.

 

[navetsea]

looks like the surface of Mercurius