History Question

[Ray-Vigo]

I've been curious about this:

is there any historical difference between the center dent style, the teardrop style, and the diamond crown styles of hat shapes for fedoras? Did one predate the others or did they all co-exist at the same time?

I'd read somewhere that the center dent was the oldest of the styles, but I found that somewhat hard to believe given that there was no evidence cited for that generalization. It got me curious though as to what style originated and predominated when.

 

[indycop]

I know very little about this stuff but the centerdent goes back at least to the civil war slouch hats.

 

[Brad Bowers]

I've been curious about this:

is there any historical difference between the center dent style, the teardrop style, and the diamond crown styles of hat shapes for fedoras? Did one predate the others or did they all co-exist at the same time?

I'd read somewhere that the center dent was the oldest of the styles, but I found that somewhat hard to believe given that there was no evidence cited for that generalization. It got me curious though as to what style originated and predominated when.

My two cents on the subject:

Well, there are exceptions to everything, but you have to think of them in terms of what was the most stylistically acceptable or popular.

The evidence is all going to be photographic. The center crease is the simplest of creases, which suggests it would have been around the longest. Photos of various hat styles from the late-nineteenth century will bear this out. In particular, think of the Homburg, ostensibly the forerunner of the fedora, in modern terms. It has a center crease only.

Our best evidence for diamond creases and teardrops comes from Hollywood films, and some from photos of the period, but the films give us the opportunity to view hats from various angles. Most photos don't necessarily show the top of a hat.

Diamond creases can be seen in films at least as early as the mid-1930s. How far back do they go? I don't know, but by 1933 or 1934, they can be seen quite a bit.

Teardrops, or C-crowns, are probably the next logical step beyond the diamond crease. They seem to be more prevalent from the late-1930s on through the 1940s.

While Hollywood should not be the definitive source, I'm sure they were pretty reflective of styles of the times back then, particularly since many of the male actors wore their own hats in their films.

Hmm, maybe that was more like 3 or 4 cents.lol

Brad

 

[Lefty]

I think Indycop might be onto something. With all of the styles that move from military regulation to the street, maybe the idea of creasing a hat in different styles came from soldiers.

As to dress hats, I'm with Brad. That homburg center dent seems pretty prevalent in old photos.

 

[RBH]

My two cents on the subject:

Well, there are exceptions to everything, but you have to think of them in terms of what was the most stylistically acceptable or popular.

The evidence is all going to be photographic. The center crease is the simplest of creases, which suggests it would have been around the longest. Photos of various hat styles from the late-nineteenth century will bear this out. In particular, think of the Homburg, ostensibly the forerunner of the fedora, in modern terms. It has a center crease only.

Our best evidence for diamond creases and teardrops comes from Hollywood films, and some from photos of the period, but the films give us the opportunity to view hats from various angles. Most photos don't necessarily show the top of a hat.

Diamond creases can be seen in films at least as early as the mid-1930s. How far back do they go? I don't know, but by 1933 or 1934, they can be seen quite a bit.

Teardrops, or C-crowns, are probably the next logical step beyond the diamond crease. They seem to be more prevalent from the late-1930s on through the 1940s.

While Hollywood should not be the definitive source, I'm sure they were pretty reflective of styles of the times back then, particularly since many of the male actors wore their own hats in their films.

Hmm, maybe that was more like 3 or 4 cents.lol

Brad

and might I add... money well spent!!! :eusa_clap

 

[carter]

Agreed. Mr. Bowers is a veritable fount of information and well considered opinion. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

RBH, Nice Avatar!

 

[RBH]

Agreed. Mr. Bowers is a veritable fount of information and well considered opinion. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

RBH, Nice Avatar!

As is yours!

 

[Guttersnipe]

I think Indycop might be onto something. With all of the styles that move from military regulation to the street, maybe the idea of creasing a hat in different styles came from soldiers.

I think generally style usually goes the other way - civilian to military (baring the obvious martial influence during/following WW2). Union soldiers in the Civil War loved to put center and telescoping creases in their issue "Hardee" hats in order to make them look less stuffy and more like the hats they wore in civilian life.

 

[Ray-Vigo]

Some great insights there about the crease type.

I'll try a second question since people seem to know this stuff pretty well:

is there an historical perspective to brim size? I've heard some people say that larger brims are characteristic of the late 1930s and the 1940s and that smaller brim sizes were more prevalent both before and after that period. Is that true?

 

[David Conwill]

While Hollywood should not be the definitive source, I'm sure they were pretty reflective of styles of the times back then

At least the styles in Southern California. Keep in mind that prior to WWII, California was pretty insular. It has been said that the appliances, telephones, and other things used in Hollywood films in the period between the wars are usually actually slightly different in design from the rest of the nation, having been locally produced west of the Rockies and not "back east" in the Rust Belt.

It's said this had the (unintended) effect of making movies "more magical" to the mainstream viewer, since it nothing in the sets was "ordinary" to him or her.

I think this could easily pertain to clothing and hats as well.

-Dave