Hilarious Misinformation About US and Our Hats

[Visigoth]

"When dealing with vintage hats, purists never wear them, less strict collectors wear them when their hair is very clean, and nobody takes the aging hat out in a downpour. Stiff hats will collapse. Keep a close eye on the weather when wearing vintage hats."

from http://www.hatlife.com/care.php, believe it or not.

a) Purists WEAR them.

b) Less strict collectors know that wearing them in a downpour is a hell of a lot safer than wearing a modern hat in a downpour. I mean, yeah: avoid downpours in general, but you're much better off with a hat from the thirties, if you get caught.

c) Stiff vintage hats generally DON'T collapse, whereas the modern equivalent is liable to turn to mush.

 

[Matt Deckard]

I read that too. I'm surt the wording will be changed in time. I just don't think the writer knows that many vintage hat wearers. The book surrounds modern hatters. Not many vintage hat wearers aI know take the time to get their vintage hats cleaned andblocked so I could see how some would think the vintage hat wearing public is small and more of a collectors club.

 

[Mulceber]

b) Less strict collectors know that wearing them in a downpour is a hell of a lot safer than wearing a modern hat in a downpour. I mean, yeah: avoid downpours in general, but you're much better off with a hat from the thirties, if you get caught.

That's debatable. Personally, I'd feel a whole lot safer wearing an adventurebilt out in the rain than I would a vintage stetson. Steve's right when he says that because of its age, vintage felt isn't as tough as it used to be, so if there's a downpour, go with the modern hat. If its anything decent, it'll stand up to the weather quite well. -Mulceber

 

[Serial Hero]

Also from that site:

The baseball cap sn an American icon.

This simple and functional style was a perfect fit for a country that glorified democracy and anti-elitism.

Like Coca-Cola and McDonalds, the baseball cap became a symbol of America.

Today, you’d be hard pressed to find any American without at least one ball cap in his or her closet or drawer.

Imagine that! With the explosion of digitized embroidery, and advances in silk screening, the ball cap, with its message on the crown, has became a walking billboard. With a message on the top of one’s head, the wearer can let the world know just what brands they prefer, their political point of view, their favorite activities, where they’ve traveled, their favorite band, movie, cartoon character, and their favorite team. Hence, a perfect headwear marriage, made in America.

 

[RedPop4]

Of course expressing support/love/loyalty to one's causes, whatever they may be is contemptuous, especially in cap form.
MAN, I just love condescending people.

 

[Visigoth]

Mulcebar, the real test is a modern *Stetson* vs. a vintage Stetson.

By all accounts, you do not want to get caught in a downpour in a recent Stetson. Especially a black one. (The dye runs.)

 

[Mulceber]

Yes, but that's because modern stetsons are crap in general. You could argue that a paper bag would be better than them in the rain, and not be too far off. But if I were to be given the option between wearing a decent modern hat in the rain and wearing a decent vintage hat in the rain, I would undoubtedly choose the modern one. So there's really no way to get a fair rain test using the same brand, because every company that made a decent hat back then is either extinct or makes junk these days. You just have to go with the closest modern equivalent of the quality they had back then. -Mulceber

 

[Michael Best]

Hi
I wanted my first post to be a nice introduction. I wanted it to be full of meaning but after reading this thread it became impossible. I just had to mess with my photoshop. To bad there is no second first impression

Imagine that! With the explosion of digitized embroidery, and advances in silk screening, the ball cap, with its message on the crown, has became a walking billboard. With a message on the top of one’s head, the wearer can let the world know just what brands they prefer, their political point of view, their favorite activities, where they’ve traveled, their favorite band, movie, cartoon character, and their favorite team. Hence, a perfect headwear marriage, made in America.

 

[Rick Blaine]

Looks Great

Hi
I wanted my first post to be a nice introduction. I wanted it to be full of meaning but after reading this thread it became impossible. I just had to mess with my photoshop. To bad there is no second first impression

... how 'bout a photo of the sweatband & liner.
What is the interior circumference & brim width?

 

[Fedora]

(The dye runs.)

Not quite. The colored finishing powder runs. Many modern (and vintage hats) were lurred with finishing powder to even out the color, and make the finish more pleasing to the eye. Not all, but many. I found a large supply of this stuff last year that dated back to the 40's, in a refurb shop. In all shades of browns and different colors.

I think what the above referenced article was talking about are pure vintage collectors, that just mainly collect, and therefore do not want to run the risk of hurting their vintage hat collection. I can tell you honestly, that if I owned a genuine hat that was made my Stetson in 1900, that was mint, that hat would never see the sunlight, or the wet, regardless of how it would hold up. It would stay in a box, with moth balls and only brought out for exhibit, or appreciation. I think the purists have the right idea, as these vintage hats are finite. You guys wear them out, in your lifetime(and yes, all organic substances will wear out), and if everyone did this, folks 100 years from now would have to rely upon the purists in order to appreciate vintage hats. The truth of the matter is, (and I am as guilty as the next guy) we do not have a "true love" of vintage hats. If we did, we would not wear them as they cannot be replaced indefintely. So, let's not call ourselves true vintage hat lovers. Rather, we are true vintage hat destroyers. Logic is a terrible thing, sometimes. Once you refurb a vintage hat, it is no longer original, and once you wear it out, it no longer exists. You guys are your own worst enemy. One day we will be the object of contempt as we were responsible for the destruction of hat history. Only the non hat wearing purists will be spoken of well. Read this and weep. Fedora

 

[Andykev]

Not in my experience

That's debatable. Personally, I'd feel a whole lot safer wearing an adventurebilt out in the rain than I would a vintage stetson. Steve's right when he says that because of its age, vintage felt isn't as tough as it used to be, so if there's a downpour, go with the modern hat. If its anything decent, it'll stand up to the weather quite well. -Mulceber

I have a vintage Cavanagh hat from the '40's that I wear in pouring rain, trimming the tree, working in the yard...it takes ANYTHING, and comes back with NO shrinkage or any problems. I will take a vintage hat over any modern.

 

[Visigoth]

In fact, I didn't even know what you guys *meant* by "tapering" and "shrinkage" until I soaked a recent (1983) Dobbs -- it now looks kind of awful.

I've soaked thirties Borsalinos thoroughly, numerous times, with *no* adverse affects. And, as I noted elsewhere, I got caught in a downpour with a fifties Knox (maybe sixties), and it in fact *improved* the hat: evened out the color, and got rid of a slight wave in the felt.

As for preserving these things under glass... well, I think if I had a truly rare hat, I might consider that. But good hats are meant to be worn.

 

[Fedora]

I have one of my own that I wear in all conditions as well. It has not been reblocked since I made it last year. It is modern felt.

Like I said, you guys keep wearing those pieces of history. True collectors would call you bad names. lol You guys do not realize, or care exactly what you are doing by wearing out vintage hats. I think they call that the "me generation" syndrome. (I am talking half tongue in cheek here as I am guilty too, your honor)


Personally, we are in actuality peeing in our own beds, if you truly love vintage headwear. But go ahead, use them all up, and with the advent of the internet, this will not take long to accomplish. So, perhaps, we need to thank the pure collectors of all things vintage, as they will be the only ones able to show our progeny what hats used to look like, and the old world craftmanship that was common.

What I think we are actually doing, is saving money by the deals on vintage hats that the world has access to with the internet. You want a hat. Modern hats cost too much, but you can pick up a great hat on ebay for a parlance. Of course, in doing so you are destroying history. But heck, what do we care? In the process not only do you destroy(eventually) the finite stock of vintage hats, but you also limit the quality of modern hats and varieties by refusing to keep hatters employed, and demanding high quality modern hats. It is rather ironic, but sad as well. Sometimes the love of any particular thing, especially vintage-esque hats, actually hurts overall, but the immediate gratification is what is the most important to the most of us. I think the term "hat lover" as it applies to this board incorporates a vast amount of tunnel vision. Fedora

 

[DOUGLAS]

I think that buying off of Ebay or similar internet auctions helps the custom hatters.Most people wearing hats are'nt interested in the history of how they were made. Most just want a hat to wear that looks good on them. As they use their new hat they realize it is not so great and they want a better one. They don't know were to go and maybe they stumble into an antique store and see a hat that they like and realize that it is better than the new one they bought and is half the price or less. Now they are interested. They may look at more stores to find older hats and I think vintage has not crossed the mind yet ,all they know now is that the better hats are not new. They don't know what it is made of or when it was made or how it was made,perhaps it has a label in it that has a name they recognize but they are not searching for the hat just a hat. After a while they realize that they can shop on line at ebay or some other site and see the vast selection that they can choose from. At this point I still think history is not part of their thinking, just what will look good at their friend's wedding or some other reason.

Now they have three or four hats from one of the online sites and they have not worn the newer hat they bought a year or two before because they realize it is crap. As they see more and more choices maybe they now are more diserning about what they buy and become more curious about the hat.

Then one day they are on line and happen to fall into a site that offers custom made hats. They have never seen any advertized in print or on bill boards or any other place for that matter but they are interested in the idea of having something made for them.They call or email the hatter and maybe they try one or maybe they can't because the cost, but still, now it is in their head that they can.

Then on another afternoon they come across a site like this that has many people discussing hats and the finer points. They read others talk about custom hatters and the pros and cons and now that person is becoming more educated and will be more willing to preserve a great hat and buy from hatters and take much better care of the hats he owns because now he understands a bit more .He knows how to tell quality better, he knows that there are custom hatters that make thier hats from fine top of the line materials, he knows how to care for his hat and knows that if something happens to it there is someone who can repair it.
Just my two cents

 

[Sefton]

My head's too big for vintage hats. I do however wear vintage clothes and by wearing them I am gradually destroying them. No matter how carefully I use them,they are being worn out. Nothing that I collect may survive my lifespan...and that's o.k. by me. Once I'm gone it's not my world to worry about anymore.

 

[Fedora]

I think that buying off of Ebay or similar internet auctions helps the custom hatters.

You may very well be correct Douglas. I am not in a position to call it one way or the other, but I have some doubts. I have quite a nice collection of vintage hats, and have bought many and converted them into Indy fedoras over the years. I mean, I would take a mint condition vintage hat and remove the nice vintage binding on the brims, change out the ribbons, etc. Most of these hats were pristine when I received them. I no longer do that. It seems almost sacreligious to do that today. I have changed my views as to the value of these old fine hats. Today, I would not touch a nice vintage hat that I acquired. This has come from a higher appreciation of vintage headware. I butchered a vintage Imperial Stetson that was sold by HJ in London prior to WW2. It came with a bound brim, and is still one of the finest blends I have seen out of the original Stetson company. I wish I had that hat back-original.

My collection of vintage hats basically consists of the higher end lines, although I did keep an example of the Stetson Royal and Royal Deluxe lines. My collection that is stored in another location are in their original boxes and currently stored with fresh cedar shavings that I get locally from a small sawmill. Outside of the boxes in the room, I have set down open containers of moth balls. Non of my vintage collection have moth damage and that is what I fear the most. I never wear these hats. I collect them as an example of fine old vintage headware. They are for show and tell only.


I wear nothing but modern felt on a daily basis. If one believes everything he reads here, you would get the impression that if you wear any modern hat in a light shower it immediately tapers into a cone. While I have experienced that in some modern hats, my own hats do not do that. Sure, they will taper some if you get it saturated completely, but it takes a long hard rain to do that, and few folks will use a felt hat as rain gear, if a truly waterproof alternitive is available. That's what umbrellas are for. Back in the old days, the city folks took an umbrella if it was raining, although they were wearing their dress hat. If you wear your vintage hat in downpours, it may not taper as fast as a modern hat, but heck, what are you doing using a felt hat as an umbrella in the first place? The men of yesteryear took care of their hats, and unless you were rich, that nice hat that was required for most men, was taken care of, due to the high price of hats. They took care of their shoes as well, resoling nice leather uppers and frequenting the streetside shoeshine stations. I doubt if you saw many men intentionally wading through mud with a nice pair of Wingtips. Same goes for their hats. Fedora

 

[feltfan]

Back in the old days, the city folks took an umbrella if it was raining, although they were wearing their dress hat. If you wear your vintage hat in downpours, it may not taper as fast as a modern hat, but heck, what are you doing using a felt hat as an umbrella in the first place? The men of yesteryear took care of their hats, and unless you were rich, that nice hat that was required for most men, was taken care of, due to the high price of hats.

And the vintage felt debate rages on. I'd like to see
some proof of the assertions regarding "yesteryear" hat use.
I have seen countless pictures of men wearing
hats in the rain with no umbrella from back in the 30s and 40s,
and you can see it in the movies, too. Plenty of pictures of
people abusing dress hats, too.

I hate holding an umbrella.
Unless it's really pouring (and sometimes even then)
I'll take a Cavanagh (or a Borsalino or a Stetson nutria blend
or a tough old Dobbs or...) over an umbrella every time. And
I have yet to see one taper.

The only vintage hats I own that I do not wear are
ones I plan to get rid of ASAP. You will not find a single
baseball cap in my home.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Welcome, Michael Best...

...the "fedora" baseball cap is hilarious. Well done!

 

[Fedora]

I'll take a Cavanagh (or a Borsalino or a Stetson nutria blend
or a tough old Dobbs or...) over an umbrella every time. And
I have yet to see one taper.

I was an avid backpacker for years, much of that being solo. I know rain. I know how it is to be 4 days from civilization, on foot. I know raingear. A felt hat is not what I would want, even a vintage one. Rains that do not fall downward but seem to come up from your feet, and at other diverse angles, I found out a long time ago, even a poncho is useless. Nope, you need full fledged oil skins to endure a serious rain. Felt hats are not the best things to wear for rain. Fedora

 

[feltfan]

I was an avid backpacker for years, much of that being solo. I know rain. I know how it is to be 4 days from civilization, on foot. I know raingear. A felt hat is not what I would want, even a vintage one. Rains that do not fall downward but seem to come up from your feet, and at other diverse angles, I found out a long time ago, even a poncho is useless. Nope, you need full fledged oil skins to endure a serious rain. Felt hats are not the best things to wear for rain. Fedora

I don't think we're talking about backpacking for days in
downpours. No one wears dress clothing of any
kind in those circumstances. You cut my quote at,
"Unless it's really pouring (and sometimes even then)"

Here's an image of hat wearing men on a rain soaked street
in the "old days". No umbrella in sight:

Got a counterexample?