Hidden in Plain Schott: the 613SH Perfecto

[ton312]

Worn open
View attachment 370963

(Guest starring Buzz Rickson’s, Snoopy, and Sugar Cane)

Zipped up
View attachment 370964

Zipped and cinched
View attachment 370965

Some context for picking this size: I tried on the 618HH in 40 and the P613 in M (same measurements as 40), which felt at a pattern level a little too constricting in movement, so the 613S pattern being slightly trimmer and the hide being considerably thicker made the step up to 42 seem more reasonable.

Interested in getting the 519 in M at some point (basically a size 40 613S in soft steerhide.)

Looks superb from where I sit! Nice!

 

[El Marro]

I don’t think that’ll do any good. It feels like it fits well (apart from the very much in progress break in), which I say as someone who has and loves many slim jackets, but I’m sure if I posted, I’d be told I should have sized down.

Looks good Aloysius!
I always size up myself when I can. I know that I sacrifice something in terms of looks that way but if a jacket doesn’t feel good on me when I’m wearing it, then I don’t enjoy it at all.

 

[Aloysius]

Looks good Aloysius!
I always size up myself when I can. I know that I sacrifice something in terms of looks that way but if a jacket doesn’t feel good on me when I’m wearing it, then I don’t enjoy it at all.

Thanks! I actually pretty much never size up but I went by Schott’s guidance about the 600 models being essentially downsized one.

 

[navetsea]

congrats, thanks for the writeup, leather looks nice, and fit is fine too, happy breaking in!

 

[Aloysius]

So today I draped the jacket over a chair and let shower water run over it for about fifteen minutes, before shaking it off and putting it on. [I'd put some water on it yesterday before my walk, but only for about 30 seconds.]

The effect has been pretty striking. The jacket (when fresh off the Schott factory floor) felt almost too stiff and small to wear, then once the sleeves were broken in, the body started to feel a touch big… but after today's 15 minutes, I think I know why. The chest panels were still essentially stiff which kept them away from my body somewhat. After the water, there's much more drape and it lays more closely along my frame.

 

[mendelboaz]

Congrats on an excellent jacket acquisition! That'll look even more incredible 5 years down the line. Wear it in good health!

 

[Bahabp100]

Worn open
View attachment 370963

(Guest starring Buzz Rickson’s, Snoopy, and Sugar Cane)

Zipped up
View attachment 370964

Zipped and cinched
View attachment 370965

Some context for picking this size: I tried on the 618HH in 40 and the P613 in M (same measurements as 40), which felt at a pattern level a little too constricting in movement, so the 613S pattern being slightly trimmer and the hide being considerably thicker made the step up to 42 seem more reasonable.

Interested in getting the 519 in M at some point (basically a size 40 613S in soft steerhide.)

That’s some real looking nice leather

 

[Aloysius]

I figured I’d post an update, then saw that this is actually the one month mark of wearing the jacket!

As the leather has broken in, the jacket has gotten a lot more snug, as the previously stiff panels now drape like fabric, rather than hang like boards. I liked the leather at first touch, but it gets better every week.

I think it is safe to say that this is up there with two other casual jackets that just immediately felt right to me (then got better with wear): my well-worn Barbour Border I’ve had since I was a teenager on TFL and my Buzz Rickson’s William Gibson MA-1.

Part of me wishes Schott would use this leather on other jackets, but at the same time it feels very right that it is only available on one jacket, and that jacket happens to be a repro of the 60s/70s Perfecto.

Better still that it’s hidden in plain sight in the ‘standard’ collection, rather than up in the ‘premium’ alpha-sized PER series. Almost feels like that’s purposeful, and I’d love to ask the Schotts about it sometime. Or maybe not. Let’s keep the secret.

 

[Mrfrown]

Great update for a great lookin jacket!

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

fantastic! You feel it loosening up at all in the chest and shoulders? I know you mentioned it feels more snug because of the drape, but curious. I think I'm more of a 40 in this, but it's going to be taking it to the edge I fear. 42 felt very similar with just a little bit more give. So I was hoping that if a 40 opened up like to a stock 42, I'd be in heaven. Would swap out my 118 for this I think, and believe me, that's a big deal for me.

 

[roadking04]

I figured I’d post an update, then saw that this is actually the one month mark of wearing the jacket!

Love the update. Keep them coming. That is one badass jacket. Looking better and better.

 

[Aloysius]

fantastic! You feel it loosening up at all in the chest and shoulders? I know you mentioned it feels more snug because of the drape, but curious. I think I'm more of a 40 in this, but it's going to be taking it to the edge I fear. 42 felt very similar with just a little bit more give. So I was hoping that if a 40 opened up like to a stock 42, I'd be in heaven. Would swap out my 118 for this I think, and believe me, that's a big deal for me.

The chest hasn't gotten any bigger, no. If anything it's gotten a bit closer to my chest due to the drape from break-in. That said, it's fundamentally a V-shaped jacket– not a straight tube shaped jacket like, say, the 626. It (a size 42, so the chest is 46" around) feels close to my chest (which measures 40"), but not snug to my chest the way some of my jackets do.

If I had gone with 40 instead of sizing up per Schott's general suggestion on 600 jackets, my shoulders would jut into the sleeve and I wouldn't have been able to move. (That said, I could do a 40 in the standard 613/618, as it has a shoulder measure like my 42 613SH.)

The sizing of the 613S(H) might be best explained as being in-between. My 42 measures like a 41 613/618 or 39 118 would.

I think that bit of extra give might actually be necessary, though, since unlike the 118/618/613 it doesn't have the underarm footballs/gussets. You do get the action shoulders, which are very well done on this jacket, but they combine with the high armholes and chest room to maximize movement.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

The chest hasn't gotten any bigger, no. If anything it's gotten a bit closer to my chest due to the drape from break-in. That said, it's fundamentally a V-shaped jacket– not a straight tube shaped jacket like, say, the 626. It (a size 42, so the chest is 46" around) feels close to my chest (which measures 40"), but not snug to my chest the way some of my jackets do.

If I had gone with 40 instead of sizing up per Schott's general suggestion on 600 jackets, my shoulders would jut into the sleeve and I wouldn't have been able to move. (That said, I could do a 40 in the standard 613/618, as it has a shoulder measure like my 42 613SH.)

The sizing of the 613S(H) might be best explained as being in-between. My 42 measures like a 41 613/618 or 39 118 would.

I think that bit of extra give might actually be necessary, though, since unlike the 118/618/613 it doesn't have the underarm footballs/gussets. You do get the action shoulders, which are very well done on this jacket, but they combine with the high armholes and chest room to maximize movement.

now you got me thinking I could be a 42. Got to admit, yours looks perfect and I think we're close in size and height (6'0 185lbs). If anything, I probably have an inch bigger in chest, so makes sense to error on bigger size. Your note about the size 39 118 hits home. I have a 40 118 and had to do some water/dryer shrinking to get a better fit. I suspect I ended up with a 39ish and pretty happy overall. What confuses me is the one that was for sale in classifieds couple days ago was 42, seller same size as me, and he also wanted to go down to a 40. LOL. I do remember trying on the 40 at the store, and like I said, as is, it was probably just past acceptable. I was getting some pinches in the arm pit area. And the 42 did feel pretty good, almost exactly the same to be honest, but just that little extra breathing room. Aye Ya Ya Ya, first world problems. Might have to take a drive down to the Schott store on black Friday.

 

[Aloysius]

Your note about the size 39 118 hits home. I have a 40 118 and had to do some water/dryer shrinking to get a better fit. I suspect I ended up with a 39ish and pretty happy overall.

I've thought about that, after seeing some people here mention it, and it made me curious (as someone who gives raw denim a hot wash + machine dry to max out shrinkage before I wear it). How did you account for keeping the buckle from smashing up your machines?

What confuses me is the one that was for sale in classifieds couple days ago was 42, seller same size as me, and he also wanted to go down to a 40.

I saw that, and it was a hell of a deal! If he had worn it longer (or even just worn it wet once– which, due to the waterproof coating of the leather, means the inside stays dry), I'm not sure he'd have felt the same. It really is a stiff leather at first, so breaking it to drape makes a big difference.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

I've thought about that, after seeing some people here mention it, and it made me curious (as someone who gives raw denim a hot wash + machine dry to max out shrinkage before I wear it). How did you account for keeping the buckle from smashing up your machines?



I saw that, and it was a hell of a deal! If he had worn it longer (or even just worn it wet once– which, due to the waterproof coating of the leather, means the inside stays dry), I'm not sure he'd have felt the same. It really is a stiff leather at first, so breaking it to drape makes a big difference.

so you're not "washing" per se, although I have washed jackets before if they're older vintage type stuff that look filthy. For a new or newer jacket, you're just getting it wet. Soaked through because you want to make sure the shrink is equal. Don't mess with spot shrinking and what not, too risky. You can dunk in bucket, spray with a hose whatever, but it has to be soaked through. Put in spin cycle to get out excess water. Go into dryer full blast. Depending on how much shrinkage you want, you start checking every 5 minutes or so.

I don't think the 613sh has the snap like the 118, so it's going to clank around the dryer. Won't hurt anything, maybe you get a ding worst case. You could try and wrap in a towel or bag if you want to minimize.

The only caution here is the zipper will get wavy if you go to full dry or even half dry I've found. I see you have a little wave in yours at the bottom. It's possible you got a little bit of a shrink already while wearing wet, especially if you were out in the sun. Personally, I don't mind the wavy zip, especially on a cross zip, but it's something to be aware of. In fact the Schott "hand vintaged" jackets are essentially washed and put in a huge dryer. The other issue is if the liner is near the edge of the jacket, as the jacket shrinks, it shrinks in all directions. So it will shrink up, exposing the liner or liner sag as we say.

Going from completely wet to completely dry in a high setting dryer is going to shrink more than you think. Like 1 size. Lots of factors, but plan on worse case. So check often.

If you're looking for just a slight "tuck", you can get wet, and hang in hot/bright sun. Not as extreme, not as much risk of messing with the chemistry of oils, etc. And you'll still probably get a good 1/4 to 1/2 size depending on how hot and how much direct sun it gets.

In either case, especially if you put in dryer for more than 20 minutes, I'd hit it with conditioner once it's fully dry.

I can't tell you how worried I was first 10 times I did it, but I've done it to most of my jackets and don't have a mishap story yet... knock on wood. I seem to be in between sizes a lot. Sometimes you just want that little tuck to make it perfect. It works really well for that. Going down a full size is riskier for lots of other reasons, but I've pulled it off too. Checking every several minutes helps ease the mind.

 

[Aloysius]

Yeah I got the waviness from when I wet it, but I would have gotten it the first time I walked in heavy rain anyway, so I didn’t mind getting that out of the way.

Your message is super helpful! I don’t plan on giving it a shrink beyond what naturally occurs but that’s particularly good to know, since with the 42 I have a bit of give.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

Your fit looks great. I wouldn't mess with it. If you really wanted to, wait for summer, get it wet again, hang in the hot sun for an hour, then wear it dry in the sun. That'll take off probably just enough.

I did find some notes I had when I went pretty deep down this rabbit hole. Sorry if Im boring people with my manic thought process. But in case someone else is in this inbetween size dilemma... So a size 40 has 22 ptp and 17.3 shoulders. I think it's the shoulder measurement that scares me some. Size 42 has 23 ptp and 18.5 shoulders.

I know with gussets and thicker/stiffer leather my max (minimum actually) I can push it is 22 ptp. That is tshirt only basically an inch of ease once you factor thickness of leather, liner, etc. I'll double check measurements, but I think my vintage Schott racer is 22 ptp and 18 shoulder and it fits snug, but good kind of snug, but it's maxed out.

So on the 42, I'd be more in relaxed territory. Light sweatshirt, etc. but still fitted look. Usually I would go to 22.75 to 23 ptp if it didn't have gussets. So in this case, the gussets probably won't get flexed much since it'll be closer to 3 inches of ease.

Basically it comes down to with a 40, I have no room for error. Any weight gain etc. and that jacket don't fit anymore. And obviously it's not going to be as comfortable. Safe bet is go for 42, break it in some, and maybe do some shrinking to a certain degree depending on how it all comes together.

As comparison, the 118 size 40 (after some light to mid level dryer shrinking) is 23.25 ptp and 19.25 shoulder. But interestingly enough, I think as you noted, it fits tighter than the numbers suggest because of the drape. Different leather obviously, more pliable right out of the gate. It's definitely comfortable (plus the underarm footballs) with the extra numbers, but it looks/wears more snug. The style of it though even though it's all "Perfecto" will visually look different. Little more tubular with the extra length and more wider shoulder tapering to narrow. While it seems the 613s/sh will be narrow through out, but not necessarily in a tubular way because of the shorter length.

Man, I need to get a life. It's not like I don't have enough jackets to wear LOL.

 

[Aloysius]

I did find some notes I had when I went pretty deep down this rabbit hole. Sorry if Im boring people with my manic thought process. But in case someone else is in this inbetween size dilemma... So a size 40 has 22 ptp and 17.3 shoulders. I think it's the shoulder measurement that scares me some. Size 42 has 23 ptp and 18.5 shoulders.

The shoulder ends up fitting like 18 or 18.25, on the SH. The measurements are the same as the S, but I think the added thickness of the leather makes the space inside and the size of the shoulder seam just that much bigger.

I know with gussets and thicker/stiffer leather my max (minimum actually) I can push it is 22 ptp. That is tshirt only basically an inch of ease once you factor thickness of leather, liner, etc. I'll double check measurements, but I think my vintage Schott racer is 22 ptp and 18 shoulder and it fits snug, but good kind of snug, but it's maxed out.

So on the 42, I'd be more in relaxed territory. Light sweatshirt, etc. but still fitted look. Usually I would go to 22.75 to 23 ptp if it didn't have gussets. So in this case, the gussets probably won't get flexed much since it'll be closer to 3 inches of ease.

If 22" ptp is your minimum, then I think the 42 is definitely your size here, given the thickness/stiffness of the leather and the lack of underarm footballs that your current 118 has.

The gussets actually get plenty of flexing, I've found (and I have a slightly smaller chest); it's part of what made me realize how good the pattern was. I should take a picture of this and post it. I love your detailed responses and questions because threads like this are an excellent resource for shoppers.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

Cool cool. Thanks for the details as well. I think where I was at back then was get the 40 as the punk rock jacket. Keep the 118 as the more comfortable back up. But since then I've gotten a lewis leather lighting that fits snug and a Vicenza Ridley that is ultra slim. And I'm in line for a Field Leather which will most likely be a cross zip. So a 40 would be redundant as I have too many cross zips. If I got one, it would be to basically swap out for the 118. At that point would make sense to go 42. Pros to both styles, but not going to lie, that SH is fire. If I see another on classifieds again, will be hard to pass up.

 

[Aloysius]

Cool cool. Thanks for the details as well. I think where I was at back then was get the 40 as the punk rock jacket. Keep the 118 as the more comfortable back up. But since then I've gotten a lewis leather lighting that fits snug and a Vicenza Ridley that is ultra slim.

Ha, I was in the same headspace! I figured I would get this, then perhaps a 519 in M (which fits like/is based on a 40 613S, except it has an 18" shoulder) as the more punk rock jacket, but then post break-in, the 42 ended up fitting like the platonic ideal of Perfecto fit.

I have a Ridley on the way, and I'm planning to get a Lightning 402 at some point, likely in the Rutland sheep. That should about do it for cross-zips.