Hey - wanna have a laugh...? key words "Polo" & "A2"

[Jovan]

I think this thread has run its course. I mean, none of us wear these bad knockoffs anyway, do we?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Don't you believe it.

This thread has taken an important turn, and i think it should be preserved. The anti-Chinese/Indian product sentiment is, frankly, rampant on this forum. The Chinese/Indian companies are blamed, vilified, excoriated here simply for producing what they're told to produce by "Western" companies.

This idea that Chinese product is inherently bad is ignorant hogwash - as ably evidenced above by Alan y BT - and should be stamped upon repeatedly and with gusto. (This, of course, does not say that the made-in-China-designed/specified-in-America product on show is not terrible).

Personally I couldn't care less about which shoulder to put the patch on, or where the stars appear. As for "fake" art, don't we have members who put such art on their jackets? Is what they do any worse or better than this PRL offering?

bk

 

[PADDY]

It's not over...

..until the fat Irishman/New Yorker Bartender sings.

No sweet dulcet tones yet down the Lounge hall-way, so carry on gentlemen please. Thankyou.

 

[Jovan]

Fair enough.

 

[Feraud]

Yes, but, given the merits for which another thread was closed recently (controversial discussion over a certain word -- no one here uses the word anyways, CLOSED), should this thread not be closed too, since all possible points have already been made and everyone here buys the good ones? Just saying.

Not everyone buys "the good ones". Depending on variables such as one's budget, knit-picking details, etc. our members own a variety of jackets.

I think the members are making important points regarding issues of quality based on country of production. I welcome the clarification and discussion of the production practices of foreign and local manufacturers. This can only help us make informed purchases.

 

[Mr. 'H']

Wow I didn't foresee the discussion taking a turn....

I think some excellent points really were made and I have learnt some new things.

One thing I'd like to clarify again to Alan and BK et al is that my issue was the PRL rip-off and not an anti-Chinese manufacturing sentiment. Earlier today I examined my brother in law's suits made in Beijing and the quality of contricyion was excellent.

Jovan I don't think the thread needed to be closed down. It is very informative and I for one have learnt some new things.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

One thing I'd like to clarify again to Alan and BK et al is that my issue was the PRL rip-off and not an anti-Chinese manufacturing sentiment.

Understood, and quite clear on your part. My comments were more generally FLounge - and a couple from this thread - directed criticisms.

bk

 

[Edward]

Alan/Edward,

My gripe here is that PRL are charging close to $1,500 for this and yet it is NOT a quality a2.

My gripe is the rip-off.

Not that it was made in China.

Fair point - though as has been said above, you have to factor in the designer label. Were this an own-brand product, or otherwise not a label like Polo that can command a considerable premium in and of itself (I'm reminded of a line in the original Jaws novel where a character's mother speaks of a Lacost polo shirt as a "two dollar shirt with a twenty dollar lizard on it" - I may be paraphrasing slightly, but you get the point!), an identical jacket would probably sell for USD400 or less. The power of branding, eh? Once again.... yay capitalism.

I do not like things from China and India for many reasons.
It starts the way the people have worke, the political system and it ends with
the way they copy trademarked goods from other companies.

There's been a lot of pressure brought to bear on China from the international community to get its house in order re intellectual property infringement, in particular with the 08 Games looming. How effective this is varies between regions, I understand. It's not fair to take a blanket attitude to the countries like that, though - they're huge countries (Chine especially) with hundreds of thousands of companies located in both of them, many of which are concerned with producing official product for brnaded companies. Yes, piracy is a huge problem, but it is by no means rife right across every single business. To say every Chinese or Indian company is involved in IP piracy is like saying all Irishmen are handsome rogues! far too general.

For me, it is not only a jacket, for the chines company it a way to make money.

Well, y'know.... once again, yay capitalism and all that. A small handful of hardcore specialists like Aero and ELC aside, for any company the world over, your leather jacket (or whatever other product it happens to be) is a way to make money, or they wouldn't be in business. Even those specialists for whom it is a dedicated, labour of love ultimately wouldn't be on the go if they didn't make money from it. That's just the way the world works.

 

[Edward]

I believe that it takes a manufacturer like Aero or Eastman many years to fine tune their offering and get the details spot on. I am not doubting that the seamstresses in China are anything but as technically proficiant as western ones at all. But they don't have the direction that companies like Aero can give them - even down to the flag issue above - it probably would have been placed on the other sleeve by an American company.

These companies all work to a spec they are given by the company that contracts them to produce the end product. The probability in this case is that the specification they were given got it "wrong."

 

[Paden]

There's been a lot of pressure brought to bear on China from the international community to get its house in order re intellectual property infringement, in particular with the 08 Games looming. How effective this is varies between regions, I understand. It's not fair to take a blanket attitude to the countries like that, though - they're huge countries (Chine especially) with hundreds of thousands of companies located in both of them, many of which are concerned with producing official product for brnaded companies. Yes, piracy is a huge problem, but it is by no means rife right across every single business. To say every Chinese or Indian company is involved in IP piracy is like saying all Irishmen are handsome rogues! far too general.

First, I do not want to start a political discussion.
Second, I am german andif you like, we can do the discussion in german and you will wonder about the things I like to say, but I can not about my bad english.

Third, I prefer to buy quality things, made in europe before I by label rubbish from china for the same price.
I pay my taxe in germany and not in china, all is a questions of the mix.

 

[thunderw21]

To comment about the jacket, like others have said the fit, leather and the jacket itself if not worth that price. I don't think I'd pay $50 for it; $5 at a garage sale would get something that is better.

However, I'd have to say that I do like the 'noseart' on the back. I can't see much detail but the airplane (in this case a B-24) painted on top of the USAAF patch was often found on the back of WW2 A-2's. To be more authentic it needs a name painted across the back and bombs representing missions, but who wants to buy a jacket with the same aircraft name painted on it as everybody else?

Even so, the 'painted' bomber in no way makes up for the overall cheesiness of the jacket. Maybe for others with money to spend but not for me.

 

[Edward]

First, I do not want to start a political discussion.

No, fair enough, nor do I.

Second, I am german andif you like, we can do the discussion in german and you will wonder about the things I like to say, but I can not about my bad english.

I wish I could, but alas your English is far superior to my German - Ich spreche Deutsch ein biscon, aber es ist nicht gut! Uhm.....Sehr nicht gut! lol

Third, I prefer to buy quality things, made in europe before I by label rubbish from china for the same price.
I pay my taxe in germany and not in china, all is a questions of the mix.

I'm not particularly selective where the stuff I buy originates on a country basis, more by company (some multi-nationals I avoid due to working practices), but I absolutely agree I'd rather see out and pay for a quality garment than a brand lable on it.

 

[Mr. 'H']

I'm not particularly selective where the stuff I buy originates on a country basis, more by company (some multi-nationals I avoid due to working practices), but I absolutely agree I'd rather see out and pay for a quality garment than a brand lable on it.

Hi Edward,

Now that I received my aero seal HH a2 last Friday - which I have been wearing incessantly ever since
- I am eager to revisit the store to do a comparison!

 

[Edward]

Hi Edward,

Now that I received my aero seal HH a2 last Friday - which I have been wearing incessantly ever since
- I am eager to revisit the store to do a comparison!

I suspect the "winner" is a foregone conclusion - but certainly it's still worth doing. It's always interesting to compare just exactly what the differences are when you are able and know to go to a specialist rather than simply combing the high street. I'd like to see photos of the Aero, too... (I've pretty much decided to go Aero myself once the money is there (probably the oil pull horse - definitely seal brown, rust cuffs, and hopefully also the scarlet lining).

 

[Mr. 'H']

I suspect the "winner" is a foregone conclusion - but certainly it's still worth doing. It's always interesting to compare just exactly what the differences are when you are able and know to go to a specialist rather than simply combing the high street. I'd like to see photos of the Aero, too... (I've pretty much decided to go Aero myself once the money is there (probably the oil pull horse - definitely seal brown, rust cuffs, and hopefully also the scarlet lining).

Great choice but be careful with the red lining... I read somewhere that that liner is not as breathable as the cotton drill.

 

[kampkatz]

Dismal A2 copy

What bothers me is that the store obviously has outrageously marked up the price and made false claims in using the term "A2". How can any store owner with a conscience attempt to rip off unsuspecting customers? The manufacturer most likely just used an inadequate description as a model.

 

[Jerekson]

If the jacket was $50 than that would seem reasonable. By all means, to a non-expert, it could suffice.

But $1500...I think not.

 

[dashiell]

If the jacket was $50 than that would seem reasonable. By all means, to a non-expert, it could suffice.

But $1500...I think not.

What I find very silly is the idea that even if that jacket came lined with Kevlar it would still be overpriced.

 

[Mr. 'H']

Now that I received my aero seal HH a2 last Friday - which I have been wearing incessantly ever since
- I am eager to revisit the store to do a comparison!

I visited the store again this Saturday (in the interests of FL raportage - roving reporter on the ground.... ).

What intrigued me was the following: I spotted another Polo leather jacket underneath the a2 which was in the same leather and made in China also (I presume). Just a regular style - the type Tony Soprano might wear! It was half the price!

Which to me means that PRL are charging about $700 extra for the "Bleeker Squadron " artwork and the flag etc.

Kinda mean I think. I would love someone to ask PRL to comment on this....

 

[Edward]

What bothers me is that the store obviously has outrageously marked up the price and made false claims in using the term "A2". How can any store owner with a conscience attempt to rip off unsuspecting customers? The manufacturer most likely just used an inadequate description as a model.

To be fair, I doubt that this is the case. ISTM that it's far more likely that a] the price reflects the value placed on the designer label attached to the garment (I've seen people pay GBP40 / USD80 for a very ordinary t shirt before now because it had a Tommy Hellfinger logo or whatever printed all over it), and b] more than likely they simply don't know that the jacket is so inaccurate. Now don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have paid that for it anyhow, but I know that before i signed on here, I wouldn't have known that it wasn't an accurate A2, so i think we need to allow the likelihood of ignorance here rather than fraud.