Hercule Poirot: well dressed gentleman or overdressed dandy?

[Edward]

Of course, Poirot and Marlowe moved in very different worlds! There's definitely a rich, unexploited vein of comedy gold there - imagine the hard-boiled Marlowe in an English Edwardian country-house setting.... lol

Hi Edward,

I may be wrong but did Poirot not first appear in the "The Mysterious Affair at Styles", which I think was published in the very early 20s, and possibly written by her even earlier. She describes him as a "meticoulius and tidy little man..."


hence why I assumed his style was much more in keeping with late Edwardian.

Kindest Regards

Ben

Ben, quite right - from what you and others have said, I'm clearly overly influenced by the television. I think my Poirot is more Suchet than Christie

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Isn't this Poirot?

 

[Brian Sheridan]

Of course, Poirot and Marlowe moved in very different worlds! There's definitely a rich, unexploited vein of comedy gold there - imagine the hard-boiled Marlowe in an English Edwardian country-house setting.... lol

That kind of already happened - The 1978 remake of The Big Sleep by English director Michael Winner. In an updated story, Marlowe was London based and visited English mansions. Since he went to college and "can still speak English when it is needed", he faired just fine. Marlowe always had manners, unlike Sam Spade.

 

[Edward]

That kind of already happened - The 1978 remake of The Big Sleep by English director Michael Winner. In an updated story, Marlowe was London based and visited English mansions. Since he went to college and "can still speak English when it is needed", he faired just fine. Marlowe always had manners, unlike Sam Spade.

I find it hard to imagine without Bogart!

 

[Brian Sheridan]

I find it hard to imagine without Bogart!

So did a majority of the movie-going public. And Robert Mitchum reprised Marlowe. A wasted opportunity. Sorry for going OT.


And now we resume our regularly scheduled thread.....

 

[Ethan Bentley]

Yes he's a dandy but he's the smartest one I know of. I like his cane with a pop-out magnifier.

 

[chanteuseCarey]

Gents, then it sounds like if I want to know what he was envisioned to be I read the books. If I want to drool over the "movie-fied" clothes of the 30s and the Art Deco settings, I rent the dvds. Yes?

 

[Slim Portly]

I thought you would say that. Your ensembles often seem quite Poirot-like in their meticulous neatness.

A high compliment. I thank you, sir.

 

[Ethan Bentley]

Gents, then it sounds like if I want to know what he was envisioned to be I read the books. If I want to drool over the "movie-fied" clothes of the 30s and the Art Deco settings, I rent the dvds. Yes?

Exactly, I suggest you read a few books first to establish you own picture of the characters.

 

[BinkieBaumont]

"Poirot (the Character) is rather "Stuck" in the 20's, whilst the Tv Series is rather set in the mid 30's which was rather" Moderne" remember in the episode the "Spanish Chest" an interfering old Lady , is at the Cocktail party where the murder has already happened!!! but is delighted when taking to the dance floor, with Poirot, he starts going into a "Two Step" in spats!!!

 

[Tiller]

I would say Poirot is both a well dressed gentleman, and a dandy. He stays with his style despite the changing times he lives in, which is why some people think he is "overdressed" in the stories (often commenting on the strange little man). I love the fact that Poirot survives till 1975, although Christie didn't plan him to survive that long, and thought of him as an old man even in her first story (I doubt after writing the Mysterious Affairs at Styles in 1916, Christie would have predicted she would still be writing stories about him until 1972). Since he is old fashion even in the teens I think it's great fun having him around in the 60's and 70's. It would be the same as Sherlock Holmes living into the 1950's, and solving mysteries in his sunset years and watching the culture clashes ensure. The Victorian with his Bohemian sensibilities clashing with the post World War II world.

The only problem I have with the later stories is the Poirot does very little "legwork" on his owns, although considering he would have to be at least in his late 90's by the 70's it's not hard to understand why. lol Of course the real reason that Poirot, became an armchair detective in the later stories was that Christie was tired of him lol.

 

[David V]

By the very definition a "Dandy" is never over dressed.
Better dressed but never over dressed.

 

[avedwards]

I would say Poirot is both a well dressed gentleman, and a dandy. He stays with his style despite the changing times he lives in, which is why some people think he is "overdressed" in the stories (often commenting on the strange little man). I love the fact that Poirot survives till 1975, although Christie didn't plan him to survive that long, and thought of him as an old man even in her first story (I doubt after writing the Mysterious Affairs at Styles in 1916, Christie would have predicted she would still be writing stories about him until 1972). Since he is old fashion even in the teens I think it's great fun having him around in the 60's and 70's. It would be the same as Sherlock Holmes living into the 1950's, and solving mysteries in his sunset years and watching the culture clashes ensure. The Victorian with his Bohemian sensibilities clashing with the post World War II world.

Holmes does solve crimes in the 1940s with Basil Rathbone playing him. Unlike Poirot I think Holmes would adapt to modern times though, a he dresses in fashion for Victorian times and uses what was then modern technology (a high power magnifying glass and a revolver sometimes).

 

[Evan Everhart]

Holmes does solve crimes in the 1940s with Basil Rathbone playing him. Unlike Poirot I think Holmes would adapt to modern times though, a he dresses in fashion for Victorian times and uses what was then modern technology (a high power magnifying glass and a revolver sometimes).

The Holmes of screen as presented by Basil Rathbone may have solved mysteries during the 1940s, but this was not written by Sir Doyle. Holmes' last case takes place just prior to WWI and in it he foils German agents' attempt at acquiring certain information which they are seeking in their plans for martial preparation.

You are correct in stating Holmes' adaptability as he is infinitely versatile and is known for flouting the tastes and feelings of others upon almost any topic though, he does have a great appreciation for societal order. He would likely have adapted, but slowly as most people would to vastly altered social status quos.

Holmes also displays a penchant for wearing tweeds when they are not necessarily considered appropriate and likewise receiving all visitors regardless of rank in his smoking jacket or dressing gown (a sign that one is receiving an equal or an inferior). Holmes frequently dispenses with the wearing of formal day or evening wear even where it may be socially required by the tastes of the day.

 

[Evan Everhart]

I can quite agree there. My point is only that while arguably in style, his attire can be very impractical. He is not the man to chase a suspect or fire a gun in case it would spoil his clothes. That's where I prefer detectives like Philip Marlowe who is well dressed (his suits are complemented on a few occaisions) but still able to remain practical. Plus he wears a fedora and trench coat which I like to. However, Poirot is the neatest and most methodical of the lot, and he can always rely on Hastings to do any physical work.

BRAVO!

 

[avedwards]

The Holmes of screen as presented by Basil Rathbone may have solved mysteries during the 1940s, but this was not written by Sir Doyle. Holmes' last case takes place just prior to WWI and in it he foils German agents' attempt at acquiring certain information which they are seeking in their plans for martial preparation.

You are correct in stating Holmes' adaptability as he is infinitely versatile and is known for flouting the tastes and feelings of others upon almost any topic though, he does have a great appreciation for societal order. He would likely have adapted, but slowly as most people would to vastly altered social status quos.

Holmes also displays a penchant for wearing tweeds when they are not necessarily considered appropriate and likewise receiving all visitors regardless of rank in his smoking jacket or dressing gown (a sign that one is receiving an equal or an inferior). Holmes frequently dispenses with the wearing of formal day or evening wear even where it may be socially required by the tastes of the day.

You are right, that Doyle's last case is set in 1914. However Rathbone shows what Holmes could have been like had he lived in the 1940s.

As for Holmes' dress sense, it is indeed eccentric at times to say the least. In Peter Cushing's Sherlock Holmes episodes (not the film he made with Hammer Horror) he is portrayed in a very book accurate way, with costumes similar to what he wear in the illustrations. There he takes off his dressing gown and puts on some sort of a tailcoat or frock coat when receiving a Countess, replacing the dressing gown once she is gone. Of course that's the filmmakers immagination, but it seems what a gentleman would have done. However, unlike many films Doyle's Holmes always wears the correct sort of a hat in the city with the correct sort of outerwear.

 

[theinterchange]

Having just finished watching The ABC Murders before logging on,and being a big fan of Poirot, I must say he is both well dressed and a dandy as has been said.

I must say it takes a good actor to play Poirot and not come across as VERY effiminate by today's standards, and in my book Suchet does that quite well.

Randy

 

[Evan Everhart]

You are right, that Doyle's last case is set in 1914. However Rathbone shows what Holmes could have been like had he lived in the 1940s.

As for Holmes' dress sense, it is indeed eccentric at times to say the least. In Peter Cushing's Sherlock Holmes episodes (not the film he made with Hammer Horror) he is portrayed in a very book accurate way, with costumes similar to what he wear in the illustrations. There he takes off his dressing gown and puts on some sort of a tailcoat or frock coat when receiving a Countess, replacing the dressing gown once she is gone. Of course that's the filmmakers immagination, but it seems what a gentleman would have done. However, unlike many films Doyle's Holmes always wears the correct sort of a hat in the city with the correct sort of outerwear.

True on the hats there sir! One thing though, I've read all of the Sherlock Holmes stories (the real Doyle ones, not those abominations of non-canonical conjecture) and his changing clothing before a client enters for the sheer sake of their social status is never once mentioned. As I have read, Holmes while a strident nationalist and patriot with an extremely eccentric love of social justice (perhaps order is not necessarily the correct word) is no respecter of the regular rules of society though, a keen observer and deducer of them and how they are applied and affect each other and the individuals who necessarily live under their influence. Just reiterating the fact and supporting it as I see from your above statement that you likely agree with my own deduction from the literature, that Holmes was not likely to change his garments for someone based upon their rank or anything else. He is an island unto himself as the saying goes. Aye?

Damn! Now I feel the STRONG Urge to go and watch some A&E Poirot and Holmes again when I need to be working! Is there a Holmes thread? If not, there ought to be one.

 

[Edward]

Is there a Holmes thread? If not, there ought to be one.

I've not run into a hardcore Holmes thread (probably to do with his era having been late Victorian / Edwardian, thus predating somewhat the main thrust of the FL's chief era of interest), though there have been a few discussing the myriad filmed versions of his work - in, I believe, the Moving Picture area.

The issue of Holmes' country dress becoming the stereotype via him being shown wearing the deerstalker and cape in town, well. Of course Homes himself would never have been so 'incorrect'. Hardly a suprise that one iconic look became a visual signifier of the character on screen. C/f Indiana Jones: in Raiders, the hat and leather jacket are very much throwaway items... come time to film Temple and they have become so iconic in the public mind that they are the key visual signifier of the brand. Of course Holmes on screen was going to become known for one key look (well, okay, maybe two.... Bogie is at least remembered best both for the white dj and the trenchcoat / fedora looks). Interesting, though, that it was the deerstalker and tweeds, country look. I woner why.... was this as simple as that being a much more unique look, marking out the character in a way that regular, less distinct townwear would in the 30s and later when the stories were committed to film, or was it some other reason? Was it that certain of the original illustrations had a greater popularity than others? Or was it simply that the earliest, or at least most successful stories to be committed to film originally were set in the country - I'm thinking especially ...Baskervilles here - and thus that set the public conception of the Holmes brand, in much the same way as Raiders did Indy?

 

[avedwards]

I've not run into a hardcore Holmes thread (probably to do with his era having been late Victorian / Edwardian, thus predating somewhat the main thrust of the FL's chief era of interest), though there have been a few discussing the myriad filmed versions of his work - in, I believe, the Moving Picture area.

The issue of Holmes' country dress becoming the stereotype via him being shown wearing the deerstalker and cape in town, well. Of course Homes himself would never have been so 'incorrect'. Hardly a suprise that one iconic look became a visual signifier of the character on screen. C/f Indiana Jones: in Raiders, the hat and leather jacket are very much throwaway items... come time to film Temple and they have become so iconic in the public mind that they are the key visual signifier of the brand. Of course Holmes on screen was going to become known for one key look (well, okay, maybe two.... Bogie is at least remembered best both for the white dj and the trenchcoat / fedora looks). Interesting, though, that it was the deerstalker and tweeds, country look. I woner why.... was this as simple as that being a much more unique look, marking out the character in a way that regular, less distinct townwear would in the 30s and later when the stories were committed to film, or was it some other reason? Was it that certain of the original illustrations had a greater popularity than others? Or was it simply that the earliest, or at least most successful stories to be committed to film originally were set in the country - I'm thinking especially ...Baskervilles here - and thus that set the public conception of the Holmes brand, in much the same way as Raiders did Indy?

The deerstalker and cape comes from the actor William Gillette. He performed as Holmes on stage at Doyle's time (the two became good friends). He wore a deerstalker and thus it became typecast with the character.

He also introduced the curbed pipe (the illustrations only have him with a straight one) as it was easier for him to deliver his lines with as it didn't bob up and down.

Gillette did not make Holmes very book-accurate, having him fall in love at one point, which Holmes makes a point of avoiding in the books. However, at the time Doyle was so fed up with the character that he allowed Gillette to do whatever he wanted with him.