Help, shoeheads... work boot tiers: Wesco/Viberg/White's

[Bender]

I posted this a year ago, and I have learned a LOT in that time… I have three pairs of Whites, three pairs of Wesco, a Lofgren, a pair of Mr. Freedom Road Champs, and some vintage 1950’s horsehide Santa Rosa engineers.

So… Quality of construction I think is a toss-up between Wesco and White’s. Both are vintage-oriented makers, and all that implies. So they are fairly bullet-proof, but don’t expect absolute perfection. Lofgren and the MF Road Champs (actually Julian Boots) are similarly equal in quality construction, and a step up from either Wesco or White’s… With the edge going to Julian, insomuch as while the build quality is finer than White’s or Wesco, the boots are also as durable, whereas the Lofgren perhaps not quite. Not to say the Lofgren isn’t super durable, I just don’t know if I’d put it in the “bullet-proof” category alongside White’s, Wesco, and Julian. I don’t own any Vibergs… They seem a half-step below Lofgren/Julian in terms of fineness of construction, but about as durable as Lofgrens. For the minor difference in price, I think Lofgren is the better deal. That being said, both Lofgren and Viberg are more difficult to completely rebuild than White’s, Wesco, or Julian, due to the Goodyear welts.

The Santa Rosas obviously are a different thing altogether, being vintage… but wow, are they beautiful. And they still have plenty of life in them. Construction is masterful. And clearly, they are very definitely bullet-proof.

For the record, I still haven’t changed my mind with regards to what constitutes a modern work boot. There is no question that these various boots are durable enough to get the job done, just as they did a century ago. But there are far lighter, better performing, and cheaper alternatives out there. These are boots for guys who want to look great on their motorcycle or kicking around town. I just can’t see, say, an actual roughneck out on the rigs dropping $900 for a pair of vintage-inspired boots, durable as they may be. These are all “fashion” work boots, not 21st century “work boot” work boots.

I guess with the exception of the Santa Rosas, insomuch as they were actually the best available technology for a motorcycle boot back when they were built in the 1950’s, ha ha.

I’ll probably get flamed again for that opinion, but I have no interest in another debate… I’ll just say that everybody has a different idea about this, and I am a big fan of your work:

 

[Wolverine]

tl/DNR: OHSA, etc is always in fashion (it's the law) and, while quality boot prices have risen, so, too, have worker's comp and insurance premiums, such that allowances have likewise risen for workers to again afford well-made, quality boots (depending on industry, consult with HR).

Thanks, and so happy to hear you’ve found what you’re looking for, even if not work boot work boots per se, and learning tons.

So much to it, for sure, and when it comes to Japanese Americana – when it comes to engineers at least, hear you (and let’s not even get started on denim, bet Levi’s wished it kept it’s old machines and brought them back, LOL ; same time, when it comes to raw denim / selvedge, Levi’s the actual inventor way back when are and remain the best “value” for same in the market today, and yet, same is true: the “worms” (entry level roughnecks, the roustabouts), even although earning i.e. 50-75+ K and more in boom times and/or offshore, never mind stock options in exploration (with little or no experience and ZERO educational requirements – wow, same as a registered nurse or engineer, though gas, oil & mining medical specialties and petroleum engineers make even more, so much more, akin to doctor and lawyer salaries, but let’s not go there, lol), and while the “worms” in old days – you’re a roughneck? Cool – would show up in an old beaten up pair of Justin’s or Cats, and probably get away with it (lost fingers and toes), these days, with worker’s comp and insurance premiums rising, never mind OHSA/labor rising, not any more: Operators would turn them away and dock their day’s pay, and a good thing for their own safety. A decent pair of safety boots will put you back 200-300 easy, even more if working the rigs up north (think: Baffin, etc.). But if working the pits, stuck in the sludge, why would a greaser pay more, true, save all that money for a nice pair of Boulet, Lucchese or even a White’s or Viberg for Church day or the bar (goes great with their gold-plated pick-up truck, and, no, I am NOT about to stereotype Roughnecks, which run the whole range, up to and more than 200K US per annum, more in boom, but worms are worms, and gotta learn, right? Viberg Bobcat (stitchdown) is for operators and others up-the-ladder, etc. who don’t roll in that muck, etc. Just as in EVERY job and also profession, incl. lawyers and doctors, practice makes perfect as they say (experience), too!). As I said, depends on what you need/want to do with your boots, always. Rigs aside, when it comes, to say, military, Danner, Bates and Boulet (industrial/military) come readily to mind – soldiers get a boot allowance, and that’s the spend. (Otherwise, contract to the lowest bidder, cheap is just that, hardly better--‘nuff said).

As to GYW vs. Stitchdown, totally agree, as above said (both are great, durable and resolable hence longevity, with the edge going to stitchdown when it comes to longevity/ work boots, being more water resistant and offering more stability than GYW (even better is Norwegian Welt, but I digress), as well as rebuildable (assuming well built in the first place, but also quality leather, too), but with the edge going to GYW when it comes to dress & smart casual/town & Country boots (British Commonwealth Standard, and top US dress shoes such as Alden, etc. for that same reason, too), being much more refined than and, same time, as durable as stitchdown even if not as water resistant (but plenty water resistant itself, more than enough for town or country, much more so than Blake/Blake rapid—Italian specialty, which is even that much more refined, but I digress). This, of course, depending ALWAYS on the leather, and maintenance of course on the part of the wearer/user, too. Of course fine calf ain’t gonna hold up to CXL or horse, nor is it meant to (takes a fine shine, perfect for board meetings, and that’s the whole point), but Viberg in addition to horse generally, etc. has Shell – likewise, ‘nuff said.

Then, All 3 mentioned makers do both: stitchdown and GYW, for the urban market as discussed, and so, true, but their workboots are stitchdown. (Did you mean Dayton? Yes, they do GYW, specializing in caulk and loggers as well, or at least did; their Black Beauty GYW motorcycle boot, truly, a thing of beauty, the epitome of safe motorcycling in its day, and still is or was a great boot, 40s, first of its kind, changed it all! And everyone from the “bad guys” moto gangs to the “good guys” motor patrol (those who chased the bad guys), LOL.

Moving on, and keeping it friendly (always, and of course), when it comes to actual work boot work boots, like, say, national parks or wildland firefighters, sure, you can buy cheaper (take Georgia or Red Wing, e.g.), but hardly better if need to replace them after 3 months, which REAL working men and women do, turning to White’s or Viberg’s for their durability, etc. (of course, if just starting out and don’t know if a career in the national forestry service etc. is for you, then buying a cheaper, starter might be the right choice, investing in a higher quality boot later if decide the job’s for you—but again, everyone in their own mind needs to determine what’s best for themselves, in accordance with their job’s OHSA requirements, and company policies, too. Silver Lining: Good thing with rising Worker’s Comp & insurance premiums, etc. is that employers, esp. and incl. the US Federal Gov’t, recognizing this and the NEED to keep workers safe and on-their-toes (LITERALLY), has increased the reimbursement/allowance for boots, quality boots, from 200-300 to 500USD, aka price of (WORK BOOTS), White’s, Viberg, Limmer. Afterall, can’t expect quality boot makers, ranchers & tanners etc. to give up their skills and materials for free so that others can make money using their wares, right? (In this country, we not only abhor slavery, but also demand employers be responsible not only for their worker’s health and safety, but also to know what that entails; while employers are generally required to provide/pay for PPE, and while boots and safety prescription goggles are generally excepted (personal fitting/RX to the employee), many in lieu thereof provide reimbursement (for initial purchase and/or ongoing repair), never mind IRS write-offs in lieu thereof. Sorry if your particular company doesn’t do similarly; depending on your country and industry, might want to discuss this with HR and bring it up with i.e. Legal (if nothing else, surely, your company cares about worker’s comp and insurance premiums, which are going up, up, up! Good luck!).

OHSA, etc. (ATSM / CSA, NFPA, FORSCOM, etc.) is still very much in "fashion" per se, and thanks so much for the discussion. Cheers, Stay Safe Out There, and Wear your Japanese Americana (SWEET!!!) in good health.

 

[jonbuilder]

Well, since starting this post, I’ve handled a few Whites... Firstly, they are not work boots. They are fashionable throw-back work boots... There’s a difference. True modern work boots do not cost north of $600. There is no doubt that the White’s will more than hold up to a beating. But if we’re talking pure functionality, then there is equally no doubt that compared to basically indestructible and far lighter-weight synthetics, the White’s (as do all of the above-discussed) use obsolete materials in their construction. There have been advancements in work boots in the years since the Titanic sank, after all. The utilization in old-school materials and old-school construction is a nod to heritage, and let’s be honest, fashion. And that’s fine. If I were after a really nice pair of pure work boots, I’d be looking elsewhere, and planning to spend perhaps $200. But I want something that both takes a beating and looks great. So part of that is being “pretty”. And the White’s that I handled simply didn’t impress in that capacity. Stitching imperfections, mismatched heels, puckering in the toes. If I’m looking for tough boots, and willing to pay a pretty hefty premium for the pretty factor... then I expect more for my coin, frankly.

If you plan to use a pair of Redwings for work they will be trash within one year. Whites with one resole you get a good 4 years and much better support of your foot and ankle. Cost per wear is no more for a pair of white work boots than redwing and IMO whites look much better. If you want a pair of fashion boots why go to the expense of stitch-down construction , you will never rebuild them and have worn tops mismatching your new vamps and soles

 

[jonbuilder]

I just visit Julian Boot web site for the 1st time and did not see an option for width with selecting a size. Whites have eight different widths from AA to EEE. So is Julian one width fits all?
Another option with White's is to have the right and left boot built on different sized last for a $50 fee. My self I have the right built on a 9.5 EE last and the left 9 F last. This for White's higher ease arch lasts, Smokejumper, Parker and Semi dress

 

[Bender]

I just visit Julian Boot web site for the 1st time and did not see an option for width with selecting a size. Whites have eight different widths from AA to EEE. So is Julian one width fits all?
Another option with White's is to have the right and left boot built on different sized last for a $50 fee. My self I have the right built on a 9.5 EE last and the left 9 F last. This for White's higher ease arch lasts, Smokejumper, Parker and Semi dress

If you scroll through the specs for any given boot on Julian’s website, you will see that the last bullet point reads:

“Production of boots takes 3 to 5 weeks for completion plus 3 to 5 business days for delivery”.

Julian does do a few ready-made boots, but the vast majority are custom builds. You discuss width and other particulars with Julian. I imagine the size selection is just to ensure that there is currently enough of a specific color or type of leather to do the boot at the outset of the order.

That said, I have a pair of the Road Champ engineer boots that Julian builds for Mr. Freedom; those are all ready-made and in a D width, but mine are definitely on the wider side of D… closer to an E. Which works very well for me.

 

[Bfd70]

Not much of this thread has had to do with the op.
My $0.02 these are work boots plain and simple
https://shop.whitesboots.com/fire-boots/line-scout-lace-to-toe/
it just depends on what your job is.
I think these are a pretty poor bang for your buck for work boots
https://shop.whitesboots.com/work-boots/foreman-steel-toe/
I’ve owned Wesco and Whites and i give the qc nod to Wesco but for me the Whites lasts are much better and form follows function in boots.
Haix were mentioned earlier. Was issued a pair for work and they were complete trash. Unless you are doing heavy construction i think usa made redwings are a good work boot bang for the buck!

 

[AeroFan_07]

My main question to you, Bender, is what is the intended usage?

If you are worried about a stitch or two out of place, White's, Nick's & Wesco are not worth your time and effort. These are primarily intended as work boots, where this is really not a big issue. Plenty of these out there that are 20+ years old and they still last, and can be rebuilt. These brands have also more recently gotten into "lighter" more stylish boots, but again, at the core these are Pacific Northwest Boots build for logging, forest-fire fighting, and heavy work applications.

If you like such an idea, Nicks should also be on your shopping list.

If not - ignore what else I put in here. One BIG consideration - having owned at least 12 pair of White's, 3 pair of Nick's and 3 pair of Wesco's I have yet to find any of these hand-made, stich-down, hand lasted and hand-bottomed boots that did very well in snow and ice. Even the Vibram V100 lug sole is rather slick on ice - which makes sense as it's very firm -practically hard. Only the V100 in Honey lug (light tan color) was even passable in slick Midwest snow & ice.

I moved to the Ecco's with the Gore-Tex waterproof membrane and much softer outsoles for slushy, icy outdoor work and walking. See my review of these here: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/end-of-life-report-ecco-goretex-boots.106407/

I have noted the modern Ecco version of these now uses a house-brand "waterproofing membrane" even though the price is now around $250 for the pair.

To see what you are buying with a pair of White' or Nick's (of the Hand-made, Stitch-down, hand lasted & hand bottomed construction, take a look at this video, note these are the lower arch Falcon and probably one of the least work-oriented Nick's made.

And here's Rose-Anvil's update on a 30 year old pair of White's he is restoring... still very functional

And there are indeed Great quality Red Wing's still! I have a 9 year old pair of RW Iron Rangers - flat as a pancake inside, but otherwise a great Goodyear welted, made in USA boot that wears, well, like iron:

 

[jonbuilder]

Histories of White’s, Wesco, Nicks, and Viberg
https://www.stitchdown.com/stitchdown-shoecast/pnw-bootmaker-histories-whites-wesco-nicks-viberg/

 

[jonbuilder]

here is a link to a comprehensive comparison of Viberg service boots and Whie's MP boots
https://stridewise.com/whites-vs-viberg-boots/