Help me not screw up my first aero / thurston / bootlegger order

[tenerific]

I'm in the process of ordering a custom fit aero bootlegger through thurston and, given this is my first rodeo, want to try not to totally whiff on this one as much as possible. I'd love to get everyone's feedback on fit as well as final details.

Carrie at Thurston has been a pleasure to deal with. For the Bootlegger, they send out a Hooch Hauler as a test jacket in your anticipated size, you take a bunch of photos, and they provide guidance. I think Carrie's guidance has been good, but like everyone here, I'm probably a bit obsessive-compulsive ha, so my desire to solicit opinions has nothing to do with a shortcoming on Thurston's part. I've also seen people like @ton312 order a lot of jackets and no offense ton but I'd like to, like, not do that, though I appreciate the dedication to perfection.

About me -

I'm 6'4"
195 ish
Slightly over 43" chest circumference in a t-shirt, 44" (relaxed) / 45" (flexed) in a light sweater over a t-shirt. I will want to layer in this.
Crazy long arms (though otherwise a lot of stuff would fit off the rack)
Bigger lats and forearms (rock climber) and broad shoulders
I'd also add that I'm quickly coming up on 40, don't ride a motorcycle (unfortunately), and am past wearing skin tight clothes.
This will also be my first CXL jacket so I have no first hand experience of how things break in / stretch out.

Based on the above, Carrie sent me a Hooch Hauler in a 44, in a very thick natural CXL.
Here's what Carrie said - "The Brown CXL FQHH won't be quite as heavy as the Natural CXL FQHH of the fit jacket...the current batch of Natural CXL is super heavy (around 1.5-1.6mm), whereas the typical thickness of CXL FQHH is about 1.2-1.4mm. That will make the same jacket feel a little lighter and a little more flexible (easier break-in)."

In terms of details on the order, I'm thinking -

Brown CXL FQHH because I must
Matching stitching NOT contrast stitching
Olive Sateen lining
Brass Zips
Delete lapel button hole
Inner pocket
Non button cuffs
Regular back no gussets no action back
Epalutes yes or delete? Still contemplating

The test jacket that arrived was beautiful, I mean the natural CXL is honestly to die for -

^ All the above with just a t-shirt

^ With a VERY thick 346 Merz Schwanen hoodie in size 8, this won't be typical

^ In a more typical William Lockie Lambswool sweater, which I take a 46 in. This pushes my chest to 44.5/45 and as you can see this is as far forward I can move my arms before I get 'stuck'

^ Another sweater photo. With this amount of opening I'd assume the jacket would be the most comfortable as if it was closed.

Personally, I like roomier fits under which I can layer. But it is always a fine line between roomy and too loose that has to be balanced. I also live in a warm climate so realistically I'll only probably layer <25% of the time, but it is important that it is possible.

For context, here is what I would consider a good fit -

Based on the above photos, here were Carrie's recommendations -

"For an equivalent size in the standard Bootlegger, you would take a size 40. The chest, shoulders and waist will be pretty much the same as the 44 Hooch Hauler. However, the arm holes are just a little lower and the sleeves are a little wider on the Bootlegger. Not sure that this would be at all noticeable though!"

I also asked if I could try a size up but that wasn't in stock -

"We don't have the next size up (46) in stock, but a second fit jacket isn't typically used when a person only needs to go up or down one size. The measurements for the next size up are predictable, so we know that you would have 2 more inches in the total chest circumference, 2 more inches in the total waist circumference and .5" in the shoulder width.

Given that the jacket felt snug in the thickest leather we've seen from Aero, you would probably be happiest to stick with the same size for your custom order. In the Brown FQHH, the same size will feel just a little roomier and it will certainly break in to soften and feel much more comfortable!"

Now, I've seen a lot of jackets on the lounge that I feel are too tight, so I'm contemplating what to do here. Do I ...

- Do a 40 Bootlegger?
- Do a 42?
- Do something in between a la @ton312 with 1/2 in added to each side panel? This was mentioned here - https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/new-aero-bootlegger-v-2-0-cxl-brown.92525/page-8

Also in terms of fit ...

- I feel like the length is fine unless people feel differently. I wouldn't go longer.
- Sleeves need 3cm more based on my measurements. I don't like super long sleeves personally, so this should finish right at the end of my wrist bone where my hand begins.
- Forearms feel like they could be roomier but maybe that is just the newness of the leather.

Thoughts?

 

[Mandarin]

Everything seems fine, except, as you pointed out, the sleeve length. I would easily add 2 inches, instead of 3cm, because the sleeves will crease a bit. No epaulets necessary.

 

[torfjord]

The fit jackets looks perfect. Add 2 inches to the sleeves and you're done.

 

[MrProper]

The fit jackets looks perfect. Add 2 inches to the sleeves and you're done.

+1

 

[ton312]

LOL- no offense taken! I’m not pursuing perfection, never really was. I just refuse to get off the carousel. Ironically my collection of jackets now has probably never been worse.

I think the fit jacket looks great! Absolutely add 2” to the sleeves. I would caution against adding anything to the side panels. That was a mistake on my part and I think it sort of ruined the jacket. Looking back I have no idea why I thought I needed to do that.

I agree with Carrie that for the same fit you have now a standard size 40” bootlegger with the added length you need would be perfect.
That natural CXL does look awfully nice. Is that the hide you will select?

 

[Grayland]

As everyone else seems to think, the jacket fits great other than sleeve length. One of the reasons it can be so difficult to nail down an Aero fit is because of the wide variance in their sizing. Makes zero sense that you would wear a 44 in a Hooch Hauler and a 40 in a Bootlegger...by the same manufacturer.

 

[Carlos840]

I'm struggling with the fact that a size 40 Bootlegger would fit you.
I am 6'2", 180Lb, 41" chest in a T-shirt and this is me in a 40 Bootlegger:

The fit isn't the neatest, there is a bit of room in the chest (that is IMO due to the way Aero cuts their jackets), but the arms and shoulders are as tight as i would want them.
Moving and living in it i can feel this is the "correct" size for me and a 38 would feel like a straightjacket.
I might get away with it if Aero patterns where better, but as it stand a 40 is IMO correct for me.
I'd be afraid a 40 would be a nightmare on someone your size...

 

[Brandrea33]

The fit jackets looks perfect. Add 2 inches to the sleeves and you're done.

Have to agree, the fit jacket looks pretty great. I’d just add to the sleeve length and call it a day.

The unknown is what will the jacket “feel” like to wear, and unfortunately that’s something you have to experience IMHO.

 

[tenerific]

I'm struggling with the fact that a size 40 Bootlegger would fit you.
I am 6'2", 180Lb, 41" chest in a T-shirt and this is me in a 40 Bootlegger:
The fit isn't the neatest, there is a bit of room in the chest (that is IMO due to the way Aero cuts their jackets), but the arms and shoulders are as tight as i would want them.
Moving and living in it i can feel this is the "correct" size for me and a 38 would feel like a straightjacket.
I might get away with it if Aero patterns where better, but as it stand a 40 is IMO correct for me.
I'd be afraid a 40 would be a nightmare on someone your size...

Hey Carlos, I've been going over your posts and this is what I struggled with as well. At a 41 chest, how the heck would I take the same size as you when I'm a 43 in a tshirt? Doesn't seem right.

In your bootlegger, when new, did you feel constricted at all? Did you get 'stuck' on the forward range of movement the way I'm illustrating in my photos? Did things feel constrictive at all when zipped closed or was it comfortable? These are the things I'm wondering.

Also, I think your fits in general are fantastic, especially when it comes to sleeve length, so would love your input there as well. I've seen soooo many jackets on here with sleeves I thought too long.

 

[tenerific]

LOL- no offense taken! I’m not pursuing perfection, never really was. I just refuse to get off the carousel. Ironically my collection of jackets now has probably never been worse.

I think the fit jacket looks great! Absolutely add 2” to the sleeves. I would caution against adding anything to the side panels. That was a mistake on my part and I think it sort of ruined the jacket. Looking back I have no idea why I thought I needed to do that.

I agree with Carrie that for the same fit you have now a standard size 40” bootlegger with the added length you need would be perfect.
That natural CXL does look awfully nice. Is that the hide you will select?

I am thinking dark brown at this point but I am tempted by the natural (though I don't like how thick this one is particularly). I think you need another bootlegger in natural...

 

[Carlos840]

Hey Carlos, I've been going over your posts and this is what I struggled with as well. At a 41 chest, how the heck would I take the same size as you when I'm a 43 in a tshirt? Doesn't seem right.

In your bootlegger, when new, did you feel constricted at all? Did you get 'stuck' on the forward range of movement the way I'm illustrating in my photos? Did things feel constrictive at all when zipped closed or was it comfortable? These are the things I'm wondering.

Also, I think your fits in general are fantastic, especially when it comes to sleeve length, so would love your input there as well. I've seen soooo many jackets on here with sleeves I thought too long.

Nothing in the Aero sizing seems right.
They are the only brand where i am a size 40 rather than a size 42, and still the pit to pit of all four of my size 40 Aeros is at least 1" larger than all my 42 tagged jackets from other makers! It makes no sens to me.

You are not going to like this, but things still feel constricted and restrictive today after wearing the jackets on and off for 4 years...
As you might know i am not a fan of Aero patterns, i think they have poor mobility, poor range of motion and hang from the neck, making them uncomfortabel when worn for a long period of time.
To this day i only really wear one of my Aeros when i know i will be taking it off soon, ie going to the restaurant, the cinema, something like that.
I i am going to be living with my jacket on my back all day i don't wear an Aero, been there, done that, don't like it.
To me they feel too big and too small at the same time. In some way oversized, but in some way it still feels too tight and binding.
None of my Aeros move with me, i am always fighting them when i move.

Obviously not everyone feels that way, as many other TFL members are very happy with their Aeros...
It's just that i have a bunch of other jackets that i find far easier to live with.

Sleeve length wise, it seems we both prefer sleeves on the shorter side.
I have a feeling 2" extra would be a bit much, maybe ask for 1.5" more?

 

[Pandemic]

Off-topic here, but the D pocket on Carlos’ jacket looks amazing! Really works will with the style.

Epaulettes would not, IMO.

 

[MrProper]

6.5, 198 lbs, 43.3" chest and I have from Aero a Shearling size 42, slimfit crosszip size 44, Cafe Racer (in production) size 42 (but I'm not yet sure whether 40 would have been better), Ex-Cafe Racer size 46 (way too big, at least 2 numbers, if not 3)

 

[Jin431]

That fits great already aside from the sleeves being short. The Bootlegger and stf Bootlegger will have a boxier look and lower armholes so it will fit differently.

When I ordered through TB, I initially asked for a HOoch hauler front with half belt and single yoke back design but then Carrie told me why not just go with the stf Bootlegger. I was wanting that V tapered look with high armholes then got persuaded otherwise so ended up with a size too large with STF Bootlegger that I had to get altered.

@JustinW field leather jacket has a similar look but with a much cleaner back design in my opinion.

 

[jonbuilder]

I can not give you advice I do not have enough experience with recent Bootlegger sizing I can tell you a size 44 Bootlegger made about 2006 would be too large on you. Aero does change its patterns over time.
You might consider a Bootlegger in the STF cut in size 44. I have the STF Bootlegger size 42 just under 43 chest and it's a nice sung fit throughout my body. I do not know specifically how the STF cut differs from a standard cut but I guess it is cut with more taper for a more athletic built. If the STF is available I believe this would be a better option than requesting a customized standard Bootlegger with a tapper to the helm and the upcharges.

 

[El Marro]

tenerific,
The fit jacket looks good to me, with longer sleeves of course. I would be nervous about ordering a size 40 Bootlegger since your only metric is that you have tried on a jacket in a larger size that is cut from a slimmer pattern... Since this is a rather large investment I would not order a Bootlegger without first trying on a Bootlegger.
I know Carrie is very good at what she does and I have bought jackets from her using the fit jacket process. I will say that she tends to err on the side of a trim fit which is not what you need if you want to layer.

 

[TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead]

Granted I like my jackets on the snuggier side, but I think you're like a half size too big in these shots. Too much room on that back shot for my liking. But you did mention you want to layer, so could be good for you as is. Except yeah, you need 2 inches on the sleeves for sure. No epaulettes.

To further what Carlos said and a similar conversation I was having just last night, the Aero CXL especially in certain styles just ain't comfortable. I have the brown FQHH and if that natural is thicker, I couldn't even imagine. I don't have this style, so I wont weigh in too heavily, but on the good side, the CXL does evolve incredibly and will soften up some. So it's a balance I guess. But when I hear you want to layer, I'm thinking, oh man, that CXL is going to feel like one of those old Three Stooges bits where you see a guy in a full body cast.

 

[dubpynchon]

Why not try a 42? I've a 43 chest, 19.5 shoulders, this is a 42, it fits me well and gives me room to layer.

 

[Edward]

The Bootlegger is the same pattern as the Aero 50s Halfbelt, adapted with a cross-over front. As standard, it comes with most of the changes OP wants to make to this Hooch Hauler - 'engineer' cuffs (similar to the Highwayman - not sure if they come with storm cuffs, might be worth checking that; mine has a button cuff because I special ordered that). The back is a plain half-belt type with a single-piece upper back (above the belt).

FWIW, mine is a 42. I wear a 42 in a Highwayman, and a 44 (or 46 if they are especially slim) in most of the pre-war patterns. If I were to order my Bootlegger over again, eleven years later, I think I'd have sized up one to the 44. The chest is fine on my 42, though I would ideally now like a little more waist room to pull it in. My 42 was fine on the waist, but there's very little 'pull in' room on the side straps. When it first arrived eleven years ago next month, the traps were pulled in all the way and I had an awful five minutes where I thought I'd bought something that was too small for me - luckily not the case in the end! Otherwise, it fits exactly how I wanted: room for a shirt, tie and waistcoat or very light sweater underneath. For Winter wear with a hefty knit, I'd definitely need the 44.

If in doubt, not a bad idea to drop Holly a line directly at Aero for further information on the sizing - worth double-checking as I know some patterns have been slightly revised since 2012. As ever, what matters is the size of the jacket, not the number on the label.

Oh... also, do bear in mind the half-inch tolerance rule when dealing with these heavy hides, don't try to spec it just *too* close.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Here's a photo of the Aero Bootlegger that I had. I'm 6'2" 180 lbs. This is a size 40 with added length on zip sleeves ( long arms ) and body. Aero's patterns seem to allow for creasing in the upper chest especially on their CXL cross zips.