Help for an absolute beginner

[Aethelred]

Hi everyone!

I'm currently an exchange student in Taiwan and will stay here until April. I would like to get some tailor-made suits, since they should be cheaper here than back home. The problem is, my knowledge about suits is next to nothing. One thing I know is that I don't like modern suits, since many of them are designed to make the wearer look skinny. I like what I guess is the style from the mid-30s to mid-40s, although I can't quite put the finger on what I like about them. Sorry I don't know any details

One thing is the lapels; I think most modern ones look too narrow for me.

So when I go to see a tailor, what should I tell him?

What are the details for both single- and double-breasted jackets?
How were trousers different back then from now?
What kind of fabric was common?
How should I match the suits with fedoras?

Thanks for helping me!

 

[Shangas]

Older suits differed from modern suits in a number of ways. To begin with, trousers would have a higher rise. Don't forget that during this time, suspenders were still relatively more popular than belts. Since suspenders don't work very well with lower-rise trousers, the rises were made higher so that wearing trousers with suspenders would be more comfortable.

I don't think fabric has changed much. It's still wool. But I believe older suits would've had a thicker fabric than what we're used to today. Some older suits I've seen have really thick fabric whereas a suit you'd buy today is almost like a handkerchief.

What do you mean by "matching suits with fedoras"? You mean by colour? Style? Size?

 

[Two Types]

Look through the forum and find photographs of suits you like. Threads such as 'Show us your 1930s suits' and 'Show us your 1940s suits'. Copy photos of the style of suits that you like. Read the threads to find out details about the rise, the style of waistband, pocket style etc. Focus on details like the shape of shoulders andwidth of lapels. Show these to a number of tailors until you find a tailor who instinctively understands what you are looking for.
Good luck.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

It is almost impossible to get all details in one posting. You really have to do some reading (use the BIG SUIT ROOM STICKY) and this PDF

I don't think fabric has changed much.

Oh beware. There are polyester suits in the modern world. Go for pure wool (or linen on a summer suit) and rather heavy fabric. It drapes better.

The trousers should have high rise (as mentioned above) but also a fuller cut on the legs and a bigger leg opening and cuffs.

The jackets...uhm. Bigger lapels is good of course but they also need a certain shape because it could easily look too 70s. The wide shoulders and a waist surpression are also an important part of the silhoutte. I personally like the look of roped shoulders but it is no must.

 

[Aethelred]

Thanks for your answers!

Older suits differed from modern suits in a number of ways. To begin with, trousers would have a higher rise. Don't forget that during this time, suspenders were still relatively more popular than belts. Since suspenders don't work very well with lower-rise trousers, the rises were made higher so that wearing trousers with suspenders would be more comfortable.

Does it mean that if someone preferred to use belts, his trousers would have had lower-rise like today?

What do you mean by "matching suits with fedoras"? You mean by colour? Style? Size?

By all of the above, but I'm wondering especially if I have to match brim size and lapel width very carefully.

Look through the forum and find photographs of suits you like. Threads such as 'Show us your 1930s suits' and 'Show us your 1940s suits'. Copy photos of the style of suits that you like. Read the threads to find out details about the rise, the style of waistband, pocket style etc. Focus on details like the shape of shoulders and width of lapels. Show these to a number of tailors until you find a tailor who instinctively understands what you are looking for.

Yes, I'm going to do that. Still, I'm worried that the tailors here wouldn't immediately recognize the vintage suits because it wasn't the predominant style at that time here in Taiwan. But I will definitely try by showing pictures first because I'll have to explain the details in Chinese, so it'll be a bit of an adventure

Good luck.

Thank you!

It is almost impossible to get all details in one posting. You really have to do some reading (use the BIG SUIT ROOM STICKY) and this PDF

This is very useful, thank you

Go for pure wool (or linen on a summer suit) and rather heavy fabric. It drapes better.

I'll look for heavy fabric. I'm afraid it'll be harder in a hot country like this, though.

The trousers should have high rise (as mentioned above) but also a fuller cut on the legs and a bigger leg opening and cuffs.

I see. I found this thread, where the general reaction seems to be that the reproduction is not good, but at least someone said "I do like the trousers.....and that is about it." If I told the tailor that I'm going for this style (only shorter), would that be a good beginning?

The jackets...uhm. Bigger lapels is good of course but they also need a certain shape because it could easily look too 70s.

I found this photo from "Live And Let Die" (1973). I guess what makes it look different from the 30s style is the different angle of the "step" (is this what it's called?). Is there anything else my untrained eyes are missing?

The wide shoulders and a waist surpression are also an important part of the silhoutte. I personally like the look of roped shoulders but it is no must.

I'll keep that in mind! It seems like modern suits have a waist suppression, too, but the old style seems to have a rounder shape around the waist.

Thank you for your time!

 

[BigFitz]

Apologies for going off-topic but your screen name brought to mind "Aethelred the Unready" which I came across in books by Bernard Cornwell. I believe he was from English (I think) royalty. Any connection? Welcome to the Forum!

 

[Aethelred]

Hi BigFitz!
You're right, Aethelred was an English (Anglo-Saxon) king. Here in Taiwan, people have the custom to have a Chinese name and an English name, like "Jackie" in "Jackie Chan", "Bruce" in "Bruce Lee" etc.
Similarly, foreigners who live here often get a Chinese name, which is easier to remember for many Chinese-speakers. I got one, too.
Many times, the distinction between one's real name and the Chinese nickname is simply "English name" and "Chinese name". Since the name my parents gave me, Daniel, is a Hebrew name, I thought I'd get an "English name" just like I got a "Chinese name"... and Aethelred it is!

 

[Shangas]

There's no reason why you can't wear a belt with high-rise trousers. But to do that, you may have to take up the bottoms of the trouser legs.

You see, belts and suspenders work in different ways.

Your belt holds your trousers up by cinching them in so that they tighten around the body and don't slide off.

To do this with comfort, the pants are usually a lower rise (around the hips or lower). Any higher and you'll be doing your belt around your stomach, which isn't very comfortable.

Suspenders hold up your trousers by clipping or buttoning onto your waistband and suspending them off your shoulders.

Now if you tried to use suspenders with low-rise trousers, there's a higher chance that your um...important bits...are gonna have less room to be comfortable in. And that can become very irritating over a long period of time. So older-style trousers that use suspenders have a higher rise to make them more comfortable.

Personally, I've come to prefer suspenders over belts. I got tired of slicing my body in half with a belt every time I wanted my trousers to stop falling down, and wearing suspenders solved that issue. But this doesn't work with ALL trousers. Only really with the higher-rise ones.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

At the moment I can't put the lapel thing into words. There is the thing about "gorge" which most people get wrong and I am unable to explain. It's the part were the collar and tthe lapel meet.

Does it mean that if someone preferred to use belts, his trousers would have had lower-rise like today?
I see. I found this thread, where the general reaction seems to be that the reproduction is not good, but at least someone said "I do like the trousers.....and that is about it." If I told the tailor that I'm going for this style (only shorter), would that be a good beginning?

You can find pictures of trousers here A nice vintage feature for high waisted pants worn with a belt are "dropped belt loops" on "hollywood waist" pants that don't have a waistband.

There are other ways to make correct vintage reproductions though. Pants worn with supenders often have this fishtail thing in the back.. h the list goes on. I think it's rather confusing to get all the details in one row.

 

[avedwards]

Does it mean that if someone preferred to use belts, his trousers would have had lower-rise like today?

No, even belted trousers were worn very high back then. A rise of 12 inches or more seems to have been the norm (with variation depending on one's height). As Shangas says, braces are the easiest and most comfortable way of holding the trousers high up. To achieve the same effect with a belt (which became increasingly common in the late 40s) the trousers would have to fit very well.

To answer your earlier question relating to brim width; there is no real rule. Generally a wider brim and taller crown looks better with wider lapels, but narrower brims (just over two inches) can be worn with wide lapels too as long as the crown is high enough.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

.
... but braces aren't so much fun when you have to sit on (or crouch over?) the 'loo in a public W.C. (restroom). The brace straps tend to fall onto the dirty floor.

 

[avedwards]

There are other ways to make correct vintage reproductions though. Pants worn with supenders often have this fishtail thing in the back.. h the list goes on. I think it's rather confusing to get all the details in one row.

There are no "right" details really because there is so much variation in vintage trousers. British trousers often had a fishtail back, American trousers often had a dropped belt loops and occasionally a Hollywood waist and/or a small fishtail back, and trousers with a regular waistband as seen today also existed.

As a general rule though trousers were usually high waisted, wide legged, pleated and had cuffs.

 

[avedwards]

.
... but braces aren't so much fun when you have to sit on the 'loo in a public W.C. (restroom). The brace straps tend to fall onto the dirty floor.

Perhaps you need to wear your trousers higher so that the straps are shorter...

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Perhaps you need to wear your trousers higher so that the straps are shorter...

Perhaps I need to find a 4-foot-tall 'loo seat.

 

[Shangas]

I just stuff them in the pockets.

I haven't managed to find a decent-priced pair of button-on braces. I just wear clip-ons. Not as authentic, I know, but the desired result is the same. So I'm not too miffed. So I just unclip them and reclip them when the event is over.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

There are no "right" details really because there is so much variation in vintage trousers. British trousers often had a fishtail back, American trousers often had a dropped belt loops and occasionally a Hollywood waist and/or a small fishtail back, and trousers with a regular waistband as seen today also existed.

As a general rule though trousers were usually high waisted, wide legged, pleated and had cuffs.

Yes, that's what I wanted to express. There is no standard kit for the 1930s/40s suit. The varity is big and you can let your own taste decide too. For a start you could pick a picture of a suit you would like to have (from the big suit room sticky) and link it here. Then we could try to put it in words what we see in the picture.

 

[Rudie]

.
... but braces aren't so much fun when you have to sit on (or crouch over?) the 'loo in a public W.C. (restroom). The brace straps tend to fall onto the dirty floor.

I just unbutton the back buttons and let the braces ride up to my neck while lowering the trousers. Keeps 'em clean.

 

[Qirrel]

I just unbutton the back buttons and let the braces ride up to my neck while lowering the trousers. Keeps 'em clean.

While were on the topic, why is the lack of coat hooks so prevalent in public toilets? I'm fine with the braces touching the floor, but I shouldn't have to throw my jacket and vest on the floor as well. And I find that paper dispensers generally do not make for good hat shelves.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Who wants to read loo stories in the suits forum? Maybe the "steamers trunk" would be more appropriate. Haha

 

[Aethelred]

Thanks everybody for your help; I appreciate it!

I'll tell the tailor I'm going for something like this or like this and tell him what you guys have pointed out. I found both of the links in this forum
Is there anything I should know about waistcoats? I wasn't going to get one, but I might change my mind.

As for the trousers, I hope it'll be alright if I just asked for a full-cut pair with cuffs, pleats and a high waist.

I can't make it to the tailor's for now, though, but after my two-week-long vacation, I'll go for it!

Thanks again