Help for a pal - first Aero jacket

[Wuj]

Hi Guys,

Couple of months ago you helped me with choosing a proper Bootlegger size and it worked perfectly - I am a very satisfied owner of a beautiful BL.
Now I am writing this on behalf of a friend who is having difficulty registering with TFL (by the way, does anyone know what "insufficient privileges" are? This is the warning he gets when he tries to respond or start a thread), hence this post by proxy.

He is about to pull the trigger on his first Aero and has his eyes on the Hooch Hauler in Vicenza with alpaca lining. Here are his body measurements taken over a T-shirt:

Height 180cm – 5ft 11”

Relaxed Chest 96cm – 38”

Expanded Chest 100cm – 39.5”

Stomach 89cm – 35”

Waist 89cm – 35”

He is of a slim build and has hollow back. Holly suggests a size 38 or preferably 40 to allow for layering. However, my friend thinks a size 40 will be too bulky in the shoulders and back, whereas a size 38 might be difficult to zip up due to his not-so-slim waist. For reference, he has a Schott LC5100 (the European model) in a size M, but the fit is not perfect (waist and lower torso OK, chest too big, shoulders slightly too big, arms way too big, length and sleeve OK). He prefers quite fit sizing - just for a tshirt.

Any sizing advice from the good folks here at TFL would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Jacket sizes don't mean anything specific - more of that later.

You can only really answer this if you know what the actual HH jackets measure - the 38 compared to the 40 - and whether those measurements suit your friend. For example - I know that all my jackets need to be within about half an inch (plus or minus) of: 20 inch shoulder, 27 inch back 26 inch sleeve and 23.5 inch pit to pit. I am 187 and 85 kilos.

With jackets, size 38 or 40 are almost meaningless terms, you need to go by the numbers - for instance, with Aero, a size 38 Highwayman fits like a 42. If I got a 42 HYWM (my size) it would fit like a 46 and I would swim in it. If your friend has given Holly his numbers I would trust her judgement.

The other way is to measure a jacket you really like which fits (that is of a similar size and fit to a leather jacket - a denim jacket or Harrington style) and make sure your new jacket matches those measurements. I have done this using a denim jacket and it always work for me.

 

[jacketjunkie]

The Hooch Hauler is not that crazily tapered through the body as some of their other styles (CR and Moto Cross Zips) from what I have seen.. with a 3" drop from chest to waist, I don't think your mate will have any problems zipping up the 38.

Judging from the product description, the Hooch Hauler is based on the 1930s pattern which means it probably has around 22" pit to pit in a size 38 and about 20" across the waist. This is purely guessing though, you may want to ask Holly about that to make sure.

The regular Bootlegger is based on the 1950s HB btw, which runs large.. think @ton312 had a size 40 bootlegger that fit him perfectly and he's way bigger than a 40" chest. It's interesting to read Aero apparently used a different pattern on the HOoch Hauler. Had assumed until just now reading the description that it fit similar to the Bootlegger in which case I would have even suggested to size down.

 

[Fanch]

First of all, if Holly suggests a size 38, I would be hesitant to proceed with any other size if I were your friend. For anyone who lives in the US (or Canada), having a fit jacket sent by Thurston Bros / Insurrection (Carrie) in Seattle is perhaps the best option. Otherwise I would go with Holly's recommendation. The last issue to resolve would be body and sleeve lengths, especially sleeves.

 

[Lukasz69]

Hello everyone,
This is my first post and I am the pal that OP is referring to - Wuj, many thanks for sorting me out here!
It appears that my account wasn't approved until half an hour ago, but everything seems to be working fine now.
Many thanks for the useful advice. If anyone else would care to contribute, it would be much appreciated.
Holly does suggest a size 38, but she also says that for layering a size 40 would be preferred.
Also, she says that they haven't made a Hooch Hauler in size 38 yet, so she can't provide measurements.
A size 40 will almost certainly be too broad in the shoulders.
I live in Europe (Poland) and fit jackets are not sent out to customers here.

 

[jacketjunkie]

Lukasz, welcome to the Lounge!

there's no measurements for a size 38, but there is measurements of a size 40 and it's very easy to estimate the measurements for a size down from there..

size 40 on sales page:
Pit to Pit: 22.5"
Shoulder: 18.5"

Other Size 40 on Sales Page:
Pit to Pit: 22.5"
Shoulder: 18.75"

One size down means -1" it to pit and their sizing seems consistent with 22,5" pit to pit in a size 40, so a size 38 will have 21,5" pit to pit. Shoulders will be about half an inch less than in a size 40, so around 18". You should measure some jacket that fits you well, just as Seeb Lucas suggested and compare to these numbers.

 

[handymike]

Carrie is very good at sizing!
Since you are in Poland, why not send an email to the factory and ask Denny what the 38 measurements are?

 

[Lukasz69]

jacketjunkie, thanks for your kind response.
Honestly, I don't have a jacket that fits really well, other than a suit jacket. My two casual jackets (a denim one and a Schott leather one), which are slightly too large, both measure:
- shoulders 18.5"
- sleeve 25.75"
- pit to pit 22.5"
- hem 20"
The measurements are identical to those of a size 40 HH.
I would therefore be tempted to go for a size 38, but I am concerned about the hem (waist) measurement. If it is less than 20", I won't be able to zip up the jacket.
handymike, thanks - I have, but Holly says they don't have that model in this size.

 

[handymike]

You can ask for a 1/2 inch added to either side. (Reverse taper)
Others have done this. Pick the proper chest/ shoulder size and modify from there.
I would also be careful of Alpaca lining with Vicenza hide.

 

[jacketjunkie]

jacketjunkie, thanks for your kind response.
Honestly, I don't have a jacket that fits really well, other than a suit jacket. My two casual jackets (a denim one and a Schott leather one), which are slightly too large, both measure:
- shoulders 18.5"
- sleeve 25.75"
- pit to pit 22.5"
- hem 20"
The measurements are identical to those of a size 40 HH.
I would therefore be tempted to go for a size 38, but I am concerned about the hem (waist) measurement. If it is less than 20", I won't be able to zip up the jacket.
handymike, thanks - I have, but Holly says they don't have that model in this size.

Judging on these numbers and 22,5" ptp being too large, I am inclined to agree 38 should be best for you.

e-Mail Holly or someone else at the factory to measure the hem of one of those two size 40s they have for sale.. it's the same as with pit to pit, you can subtract one inch from the sir 40 hem measurement and you know your size 38 hem measurement! Also, as pointed out aove, if you think it's too tight, you can still go for the size 38 and ask for extra width in the side panels.

 

[Lukasz69]

I would also be careful of Alpaca lining with Vicenza hide.

Why?

 

[handymike]

The alpaca is a thicker lining and the Vicenza a thinner hide. If you plan on wearing it in colder temperatures, I'd go tumbled CXL. The vicenza pairs well with cotton drill, sateen, or the mid-weight tartans IMHO.

 

[Lukasz69]

Hello again,
I'd like to resurrect this thread to ask a specific question.
How much difference do you think there should be between a person's actual chest measurement and the jacket's pit-to-pit measurement for a tight fit?
I have found a nice Aero half-belt. According to the website, it's 22" P2P. My chest is 39". The difference is thus five inches (or four, seeing as the P2P is measured on the outside of the jacket). I know this is too much, but is it a bit too much, or is it way too much? My concern is that my waist is 35". If I go for a jacket that is 20" P2P or less, it will be OK in the chest, but I won't be able to zip it up.

 

[jacketjunkie]

Hello again,
I'd like to resurrect this thread to ask a specific question.
How much difference do you think there should be between a person's actual chest measurement and the jacket's pit-to-pit measurement for a tight fit?
I have found a nice Aero half-belt. According to the website, it's 22" P2P. My chest is 39". The difference is thus five inches (or four, seeing as the P2P is measured on the outside of the jacket). I know this is too much, but is it a bit too much, or is it way too much? My concern is that my waist is 35". If I go for a jacket that is 20" P2P or less, it will be OK in the chest, but I won't be able to zip it up.

This is very subjective because much of it is about how tight you can go without feeling restricted in the jacket and still being comfortable wearing it, so take it with a grain of salt, this is my personal experience.

I have a 40" chest and I like my jackets to have 22" PTP. That makes for a what I believe is a good fit. Not too wide, not uncomfortably snug. In bomber styles that are gathered at the waist, I don't mind going up to 23" PTP because these styles usually fit snug at the bottom hem anyway and you can get away with more room in the chest without the jacket looking too big. I own one jacket that was too large and I had re-tailored by a local tailor.. now it has 54cm PTP (about 21") and I never wear it. It stings in my armpits and I feel like a sausage in it. There are companies where 21" PTP in a size 40 is normal, so many people probably consider that a good tight fit, but I usually size up with these companies. So, summing up, I think 4" in top of actual chest measurement is what I like best, 5-6" are okay if the jacket is tapered towards the hem. I personally wouldn't go for less than 3" over actual chest measurement.

 

[handymike]

Chest + 4" is considered a "normal" fit. If you want trim, I'd go 2-2.5 over your chest measurement.
My chest is 38.5" -39" at nipple height.
My trimmer jackets have 20.5" across chest & my normal fit is 21.5" across.
So for you at 39"- I'd say 21" is trim fit and 22 is "regular" fit.

 

[Carlos840]

Hello again,
I'd like to resurrect this thread to ask a specific question.
How much difference do you think there should be between a person's actual chest measurement and the jacket's pit-to-pit measurement for a tight fit?

I have a 41" chest, and jackets ranging from 22" to 24" pit to pit.
IMO they start getting tight around 22.5", so 4" more than my chest size.

 

[Lukasz69]

Thanks much. Would any of you gentlemen be so kind as to post a picture of yourselves wearing your 2'' plus chest size /4'' plus chest size jackets, or point me to such a picture already posted on TFL?

 

[jacketjunkie]

Thanks much. Would any of you gentlemen be so kind as to post a picture of yourselves wearing your 2'' plus chest size /4'' plus chest size jackets, or point me to such a picture already posted on TFL?

This is my Langlitz with 56 cm = 22" PTP = 4" on top of my 40" chest:
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/used-new-to-me-langlitz-cascade.90742/
As you can see, it is very tapered, only 19" at the bottom hem.

This is my Vanson America with 57 cm PTP =22,25" PTP = 4,5" on top of my chest measurement:
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/my-new-vanson-america-jacket.90289/
It has much less taper as you can see, it's about 21" at the bottom I think. Still pretty snug fit around the waist.

 

[Lukasz69]

Very helpful, thank you.

 

[Harris HTM]

Another factor you should consider is whether the jacket has an action back / gussets or not; my Happy Days and my 30s HB fit me quite trim at a 22inch ptp; my 618 with the same ptp measurement feels far more comfortable with the shoulder gussets.