Help finding new leather jacket

[Rwarren]

Hey all, I am going to be in the market for a new black leather jacket and could use some wisdom from this community.

I have been wearing an Aero sheene, made to measure through thurston bros for a year and a half now. It’s made of black vicenza horse hide. Now, I think I got a crazy stiff batch because it could stand up on its own for like 2 months of continuous wear (4-5 times per week and keeping it on for 5-8 hours per day) while using water to spray and work it in every morning… and its still pretty stiff. Not to mention as I am becoming more aware, Aero jackets do not have great mobility and coupling that with stiff leather has been tough. I enjoy the jacket and still wear it a lot, but I think I’d like to move it on and get something a little less stiff ( would still like horse hide) and from a maker with better mobility. Price wise I could justify spending up to about 2300 (maybe a tad more if my willpower is particularly weak that day)

I am open to off the rack, made to measure, custom. I just need some advice what makers to look at and what (black) leathers would be more forgiving (again my stiff batch of Vicenza is an anomaly I believe, but can’t confirm).

Please bless me with some of your guys wisdom, I don’t know much outside of aero for custom/ made to measure work.

 

[Aloysius]

My Vicenza was stiff the first few wearings but definitely didn't remain so (at least not in an inhibiting way); you must have had an unusual batch.

I don't think upping the budget to $2300 (or further still) will actually help for what you're looking for. If anything, I might go so far as to say that (with some exceptions), the more expensive the maker, the more likely the patterns are to be untested or flat out bad.

Not to mention as I am becoming more aware, Aero jackets do not have great mobility and coupling that with stiff leather has been tough.

I think this is mostly a factor of TFL members sizing poorly and in addition to that requesting the thickest leathers. I don't think the "Aero pattern problem" is real. This is not to say that I think you must get an Aero the next time around as well but there are some unusual circumstances at play.

What sort of jacket are you looking for?

 

[torfjord]

In that budget I would look at Thedi. At least in my experience, Thedi’s patterns are better than Aero. And they’re open to customisation.

 

[TartuWolf]

Location? UK? US? EU? JP?

@Aloysius Can you comment on pattern mobility vs model with mobility features?
The way I understand pattern (as opposed to proportions) is in relation to mobility.
For me Vanson = Good Patterns = Good mobility (while still being form fitting).
Can you have good mobility features (and good mobility) and a poor pattern?
Can you have a good pattern without mobility features and still have equally good mobility?
Would like to hear your thoughts opinion.

The way I think of my Aero Hooch Hauler is that it has decent mobility for a jacket that does not have "serious" mobility features (bi-swing, shoulder gussets etc..) and only has the center pleat. I believe it would have much better mobility if it had those features, but could it have better mobility if the "pattern" alone was "better" without adding mobility features?

 

[Aloysius]

Location? UK? US? EU? JP?

@Aloysius Can you comment on pattern mobility vs model with mobility features?
The way I understand pattern (as opposed to proportions) is in relation to mobility.
For me Vanson = Good Patterns = Good mobility (while still being form fitting).
Can you have good mobility features (and good mobility) and a poor pattern?
Can you have a good pattern without mobility features and still have equally good mobility?
Would like to hear your thoughts opinion.

The way I think of my Aero Hooch Hauler is that it has decent mobility for a jacket that does not have "serious" mobility features (bi-swing, shoulder gussets etc..) and only has the center pleat. I believe it would have much better mobility if it had those features, but could it have better mobility if the "pattern" alone was "better" without adding mobility features?

The "Aero patterns" thing here sort of feels like Schrodinger's cat.

For instance, people talk about "beetle backs" on Aero jackets, but ultimately for range of movement you need more fabric, whether fuller in cut or tucked into pleats. This is a tailoring principle that goes beyond leather.

Personally I don't find that fullness unattractive, either; in contrast, just look at many Japanese jackets that reproduce the same design as some Aero or other, but they've chosen to make the back completely flat and trim. It just looks boring compared to the Aero (or of course the original).

The "mobility features" you speak of are just ways to conceal that additional material. My Vanson comet has excellent range of movement and looks trim from the front, but it has a full, three-dimensional back to allow range of movement.

You could indeed have good mobility and a poor pattern, but those would be jackets we don't want to wear. (Something like fashion lambskin offers virtually no resistance so it is a bit like wearing a shirt. Although even when it comes to shirts you can tell the difference between a good and bad pattern.)

You can have a good pattern without "mobility features" but you're going to either need a full enough shape to make that possible or an extremely pliable material. In this sense it goes back to a principle of tailoring; slim trousers with no pleats are going to inhibit movement unless they feature some stretch to the material (hence the athleisure nightmare we live in today.)

Something has to give (literally).

Since the Hooch Hauler is designed to be a slim shaped, quite dressy jacket, the only way it would gain that additional mobility would be some kind of additional mobility feature (which may not be possible given the set up with the back pleat) or the use of a leather like goatskin that inherently has that much more pliability. A goatskin Hooch Hauler would look fantastic, incidentally.

 

[TartuWolf]

Alright so if we talk about mobility you either need extra material (either plainly more spacious upper back or hidden using mobility features) or stretch (ex goatskin).

If we keep the bottom torso the same and change only the top torso - I guess you could add extra material by just having a larger pit-to-pit and shoulder width? Recently I also realized how important the actual chest width (midpoint between pit-to-pit and shoulders) is for being able to pull shoulders back..

But does "good pattern" equal "good mobility" to you or does it also mean something else like proper proportions (for example body length)?

 

[Aloysius]

Alright so if we talk about mobility you either need extra material (either plainly more spacious upper back or hidden using mobility features) or stretch (ex goatskin).

I wouldn't describe goatskin as stretchy. I'm just saying it's pliable enough that you'd benefit from being slightly less constricted as the horsehides or Badalassi.

Alright so if we talk about mobility you either need extra material (either plainly more spacious upper back or hidden using mobility features) or stretch (ex goatskin).

If we keep the bottom torso the same and change only the top torso - I guess you could add extra material by just having a larger pit-to-pit and shoulder width? Recently I also realized how important the actual chest width (midpoint between pit-to-pit and shoulders) is for being able to pull shoulders back..

But does "good pattern" equal "good mobility" to you or does it also mean something else like proper proportions (for example body length)?

It depends. I think you really need a pattern designed around a large shoulder + chest setup, like the Aero Highwayman, to make that work.

But does "good pattern" equal "good mobility" to you or does it also mean something else like proper proportions (for example body length)?

When I say pattern I usually mean the former, but both are part of it. For example if you try to stretch a cropped design to be a long jacket, it always looks ridiculous; likewise if you try to get an ultra short version of a long design. It might feel okay in wear but it will look off, might also cause fit problems due to pushing up.

I remember someone posted about his Himel jacket that was too long even after sending it back for alterations, and someone else posted the Good Wear version (GW gave Himel permission to use the pattern). The Himel (in that guy's case) had been lengthened quite a bit which threw off the design, whereas the Good Wear was a short jacket and looked proportionate.

Himel told the customer it's supposed to be a long coat (which is odd considering I've seen people on TFL who got that same jacket from Himel and it isn't lengthened.)