Head wear for formal wear.

[Feraud]

Fascinating! Also interesting to see the black waistcoat with the white tie (forerunner of the black cummerbund?)

I do not think the black waistcoat was the forerunner of a cummerbund. My understanding is it was the military sash. The pleats in a cummerbund copy the result of looping a sash around your waist.
Someone will correct me if I am mistaken on that point.

 

[Erik]

It seems that I have heard that (the link to the military sash) before, though try as I might I cannot remember where or when.

 

[Charlie Huang]

The cummerbund is Indian in origin and was used as a military waist covering by the British during the Raj. This somehow became part of mess dress which surely transcribed into normal black tie.

 

[dhermann1]

Ah, here we are! Evidence:

While this is an extremely cool and fascinating image, please note it dates from 1893-94. I think if you dressed this way in 1927 or 1937 (not to mention later) you might get some funny looks. I like the brocade waistcoat on the chap at the right.
I've often mentioned the black fedora worn by Cary Grant with his tux in the movie "Topper". This was meant to show him as a slightly dicey character.
I have always worn a black homburg with my dinner jacket, but I have a short brimmed skimmer I might try some time.
If you check out some of the Thin Man movies, I believe you'll see some of Nick's more Runyonesque cronies sporting black bowlers with their tuxes. Again, I think this is meant to show them as rather sporty types. But I do think I've seen a number of bowlers in 30's flicks worn with tuxes.

 

[Feraud]

While this is an extremely cool and fascinating image, please note it dates from 1893-94. I think if you dressed this way in 1927 or 1937 (not to mention later) you might get some funny looks.

Right. Context is important.

This explains why I get funny looks when I wear my vintage tux...

 

[avedwards]

When it comes to felt feel and overall quality, I don't think Akubra is an upgrade. They seem more casual to me because of the coarser felt. They are, as noted by others before, probably more weather-tolerant, but yours seems to have gone through quite a lot in the wet, English weather, from your own reports. I consider Akubra an equal to Stetson in its niche, but Stetson is dressier. My thoughts only and I'm sure others will have their own.

In that case I'll save more money and upgrade to a Pennman, as a beaver should be durable enough (especially with the way Pennman treats his) and dressy enough in terms of finnish to wear with black tie.

 

[JPMcAdara]

In that case I'll save more money and upgrade to a Pennman, as a beaver should be durable enough (especially with the way Pennman treats his) and dressy enough in terms of finnish to wear with black tie.

I think that would be a great move. Very classy look.

 

[Topper]

White Tie Event ( Formal) : Top Hat when outside or inside in public area
Back Tie Event ( Semi Formal) : Homburg or Trilbowler if wearing dinner jacket outside. OR Top Hat as well as Homburg and Trilbowler if wearing a long overcoat/cape.

There is nothing stopping the wearing of Top Hat with black Tie, just that is mearly looks a tad mavrick. Though if you have a long overcoat and cape over your Black tie proceeding /returning from the event, it is perfectly acceptable to have a top hat despite having black-tie underneath as you are outside.

Actually some of the last Top Hats worn by stock jobbers were worn inside also, though that was for work not formal events.

 

[Charlie Huang]

There is nothing stopping the wearing of Top Hat with black Tie, just that is mearly looks a tad macrick. Though if you have a long overcoat and cape over your Black tie proceeding /returning from the event, it is perfectly acceptable to have a top hat despite having black-tie underneath as you are outside.

That is one way since the overcoat conceals what is underneath effectively. I've seen this been done by my fellow chap with a cape in lieu of overcoat:

The Earl of Waveney

Although I would like top hat wearing to be extended down to normal day wear, I feel it will trivialise the formality of the hat and we might end up wearing tricornes in lieu of top hats for white tie and morning dress when the topper is no longer considered formal enough.

 

[Topper]

Although I would like top hat wearing to be extended down to normal day wear, I feel it will trivialise the formality of the hat and we might end up wearing tricornes in lieu of top hats for white tie and morning dress when the topper is no longer considered formal enough.

The Top hat is not exclusively evening wear, it is day wear also ! ( Think Royal Ascot!). Though often the topper is a colour to match the coat/outfit.

The standard Bowler on the other hand is considered more so for daywear, with exception of the Cambridge bowler which may be worn also with evening-wear ( as with the homburg, trilbowler, and topper).

 

[Topper]

The Earl of Waveney

Title does not appear to be in Debrett's?

 

[Charlie Huang]

The Top hat is not exclusively evening wear, it is day wear also ! ( Think Royal Ascot!). Though often the topper is a colour to match the coat/outfit.

The standard Bowler on the other hand is considered more so for daywear, with exception of the Cambridge bowler which may be worn also with evening-wear ( as with the homburg, trilbowler, and topper).

I wrote *normal* day wear (inc. casual wear, etc) and not *formal* day wear; I thought my previous posts would be sufficent to be clear!

 

[Charlie Huang]

Title does not appear to be in Debrett's?

Oh, you won't find him on Debretts. You must be a reader of The Chap magazine, join its Chaproom and be a member of the New Sheridan Club to know who he is!

 

[Topper]

I wrote *normal* day wear (inc. casual wear, etc) and not *formal* day wear; I thought my previous posts would be sufficent to be clear!

I didn't imply either normal nor formal. Irrespective of both, it is presently and always has been part of daywear ( and traditionally it was)

You say "I feel it will trivialise the formality of the hat". I disagree, It is not that hat that is formal ......it is the occasion, a hat can be worn at anyime. Be it formal or not.

 

[Charlie Huang]

Let me re-phrase my original statement:

"Although I would like top hat wearing to be extended down to normal day wear like it was once before, I feel it will trivialise the formality of the hat in this day and age and we might end up wearing tricornes in lieu of top hats for white tie and morning dress when the topper is no longer considered formal enough."