Have women... in the West at least... "Flipped the Script?"

[Worf]

The evidence is mounting as we speak. Girls and women doing better in college all across the boards. Doing better in business than many of their male compatriots... Inching ever closer to the true seats of power in this country and the western world. I believe that in my son's lifetime for sure, women will supplant men as primary breadwinner in a majority of American families and men will be relegated to the roles of providing semen, taking care of the kids and cars and mowing the lawn.

There's a scene in "Orange is the New Black" second season, where Piper's ex-fiance gets set up on a blind date by his parents. The woman is in her early 30's, a neuro-surgeon and drop dead gorgeous. She's remarks on how much she likes Piper's ex because "he has nothing going on", he's worthless. She's tired of talking to men who think their blogs constitute real work. She made it plain that she wanted to marry him so they could have pretty children which he would take care of while she did the heavy lifting..

Looking at my son's feeble attempts at gaining an education and more than minimum wage employment (and he's had every advantage I NEVER had trust me) I believe that the woman writing the series is quite prophetic. I keep using the term "western world" because in the remainder of the world, particularly in the middle east, men are attempting to maintain what shred of dominance they have by force and terror alone. You know the empire is dead when it is only held together by force.

Women don't need men anymore. They don't need us to feed them, clothe them, protect them. They don't need us to marry them or father their children science has handled that quite nicely. Companionship, arm candy and an occasional romp in the hay is about all men in America will be good for if things keep going the way their going. Men will have to keep themselves in shape, learn how to cook, clean and take care of the children lest they wind up working or under achieving at some middling job with no hope for advancement or fulfillment. No I believe the writer Ms. Kenji Kohan is definately on to somthing here... I just wish I knew where it will lead.

Worf

 

[Fastuni]

I believe that in my son's lifetime for sure, women will supplant men as primary breadwinner in a majority of American families and men will be relegated to the roles of providing semen, taking care of the kids and cars and mowing the lawn.

Hm. Women are the main bread winners of around 40% of US households... the great majority of which are (quote) "single mothers — who are more likely to be younger, black or Hispanic, and less educated".

Raising a child alone with a minimum wage job (or two) is hardly a benchmark of female empowerment, achievement or independence.
I am sure it wasn't exactly the desired choice of these women either.

Households where women earn more than their husbands amount to 24% in the US. A rising trend, no doubt... but a long way from the majority.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/b...amily-breadwinner-on-the-rise-study-says.html

In Germany (2010) only 10 % of households had the woman earn more than the man. 8 % were single-mom low-income households and 16 % single-woman households.
16 % had equal incomes.

 

[LizzieMaine]

My mother always earned more than my father. She couldn't help it, he was a shiftless no-account bum who refused to hold a job. And that was fifty years ago.

(And you couldn't even depend on him to mow the lawn, either, if we'd had a lawn.)

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Women don't need men anymore. They don't need us to feed them, clothe them, protect them. They don't need us to marry them or father their children science has handled that quite nicely. Companionship, arm candy and an occasional romp in the hay is about all men in America will be good for if things keep going the way their going. Men will have to keep themselves in shape, learn how to cook, clean and take care of the children lest they wind up working or under achieving at some middling job with no hope for advancement or fulfillment. No I believe the writer Ms. Kenji Kohan is definately on to somthing here... I just wish I knew where it will lead.

Geesh, now if doesn't that make you feel ten-feet tall.

 

[ChiTownScion]

I'm not so sure about women "flipping the script" around this house. I imagine that, having dated more than my fair share of brainless bimbo types I was dead set on marrying a woman who was my intellectual equal (Hell, I'll say it: she turned out to be my better in that regard.). But I've always regarded her as my partner in this mad endeavor, and somehow, we're remained by all counts, friends.

I have to say this, however: I do see a disturbing number of young professional women dating and even marrying "beneath themselves." Women who are lawyers, MBAs, scientists, engineers, physicians and such marrying some knuckle scraper with a 12th grade education who doesn't even have a union card in one of the trades. But, it's hardly a new trend. I went to law school with women who did that over 30 years ago, and it more often than not ended up with some pretty pitiable outcomes.

 

[Feraud]

Women don't need men anymore. They don't need us to feed them, clothe them, protect them. They don't need us to marry them or father their children science has handled that quite nicely. Companionship, arm candy and an occasional romp in the hay is about all men in America will be good for if things keep going the way their going. Men will have to keep themselves in shape, learn how to cook, clean and take care of the children lest they wind up working or under achieving at some middling job with no hope for advancement or fulfillment. No I believe the writer Ms. Kenji Kohan is definately on to somthing here... I just wish I knew where it will lead.

Worf

I thought I read Kenji Kohan is married with three kids. Fictional writings aside her life seems more or less traditional.

 

[Stanley Doble]

Not only do women not need men, men don't need women. It's a whole new world.

 

[Retro Spectator]

I actually don't think the tables can possibly turn. Perhaps women can become equal with men, but I don't think they can surpass them. I think it highly unlikely, because it is impossible to stop nature. It is only human nature for men to chase women, not the opposite. This is how it is in nature for mammals. Male animals fight for the females, and the victor becomes the alpha male. Because of this, I believe that the tables will not turn. People will get married before having children hopefully, otherwise there will be lots of juvenile delinquents in the future due to the lack of their parents taking care of them. And the whole table turning would just reverse because nature would command the people. I may very well be wrong, but I think that it is near impossible for the tables to turn forever, assuming they do.

If we assume people will just make love for the sake of making love in the future and never have children, that would mean people would have no morals, and the human race would go extinct very quickly. But as long as one person has morals, I bet the human race would survive.

A theory on why more women have higher paying jobs is because they get paid slightly less than men. If there was equal pay, then there would be more men hired. Companies want to have the cheapest labor, so they simply hire women instead.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

I actually don't think the tables can possibly turn. Perhaps women can become equal with men, but I don't think they can surpass them. I think it highly unlikely, because it is impossible to stop nature. It is only human nature for men to chase women, not the opposite. This is how it is in nature for mammals. Male animals fight for the females, and the victor becomes the alpha male. Because of this, I believe that the tables will not turn. People will get married before having children hopefully, otherwise there will be lots of juvenile delinquents in the future due to the lack of their parents taking care of them. And the whole table turning would just reverse because nature would command the people. I may very well be wrong, but I think that it is near impossible for the tables to turn forever, assuming they do.

Dude, grow up. "men chase women" sounds rapey. We are out of the caves now. A woman can say "No" and just choose another partner ...or none. Deal with it.

I don't have a yes or no answer for the initial question. But I see what you mean with the development. There is less and less manual labour and if womens score better at school/college/university it would be only fair if they get better jobs. I think that's good. I want the best doctors, scientist and engenieers possibly. It wouldn't mean men can't do this things anymore. They just have it less comfortable now.

 

[Retro Spectator]

Obviously, but I was speaking of human nature. It is impossible to stop human nature. I wasn't speaking of rape, but of the fact that men and women are naturally attracted to each over. People can't stop that. If people make love outside of marriage, then they are immoral. So if there is at least one person left with morals, then the human race would possibly survive. Or you could make it two, so they could get married. The immoral would die off, because they wouldn't have children. Even if they did, they would be pretty messed up, and they would die off anyway.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Not all mammals follow that rule, and not even all higher primates. Bonobo society is extremely matriarchal, and bonobo males exist on the fringes of that society. The bonobos don't seem to have any problems with that arrangement, and their society is notably more stable and less violent than that of the other great apes.

 

[Retro Spectator]

Bonobos may be more peaceful, but it doesn't seem that humans are the same. Humans seem to strive to kill each other, and have done so since the beginning of time. Another reason I believe that the tables can't turn is because men are naturally the hunter-gatherers. I am not saying that women can't do the same, but it is human nature for the men to do so.

However, that was a very long time ago, and since then, or so I have heard, I can be wrong, but I believe that the overall testosterone levels in human males has been decreasing.

 

[fashion frank]

Well looking at how I had my a@@ handed to me for one off comment about "women's lib" I will tread lightly here.
Women are going to out "class " us gents in the very near future because its being pointed out all the time that girls are doing way better in school than boys ,and get higher grades and that a lot of young men today wind up doing mindless jobs.

Guess we have no one to blame in that regard but ourselves.

While reading about the 1920's and the 1930's I found it interesting that there were alot of single young women who worked BUT , it also stated that once they were married they tended to stay home and be a home maker but in later decades women more and more made a career for themselves.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/mwh/usa/1920srev2.shtml

http://www.americanhistoryusa.com/working-voting-women-1920s/

All the Best ,Fashion Frank

 

[Big J]

Well I live in Japan- it's still the 1950's here (ranked 105th for gender equality), and the Prime Minister is the secretary of an association that aims to remove the vote from women.

My wife is a 'black swan'; former award winning fashion designer, and current VP of heavy engineering company.

 

[LizzieMaine]

As always when this subject comes up I recommend sociologist Stephanie Koontz's extremely detailed study of 20th Century family life, "The Way We Never Were," which points out and documents thru census and other demographic data that the sole male breadwinner-dependant housewife-2.5 kids ideal was far, far less prevalent thruout the century than popular culture depictions would have us believe, especially in the working class families which formed the majority of American households until the late fifties. From the late nineteenth century onward, a majority of factory workers in many fields of skilled labor, especially in the garment, small-manufacturing, and food-packing industries, were female.

I'm wary of any essays, studies, or articles which postulate the "middle class" as the norm, because for most of the twentieth century it *wasn't.*

 

[Worf]

I thought I read Kenji Kohan is married with three kids. Fictional writings aside her life seems more or less traditional.

Perhaps that's true BUT who's the breadwinner? Who makes the lion's share of the cabbage... who's subordinate in the relationship. That's where the bear chit in the buckwheat.

Worf

 

[fashion frank]

As always when this subject comes up I recommend sociologist Stephanie Koontz's extremely detailed study of 20th Century family life, "The Way We Never Were,"

I have a copy of that book and your spot on when you state " a majority of factory workers etc.etc. were women.".
A very good book in terms of how we perceive the "good old days".

All the Best , Fashion Frank

 

[Worf]

As always when this subject comes up I recommend sociologist Stephanie Koontz's extremely detailed study of 20th Century family life, "The Way We Never Were," which points out and documents thru census and other demographic data that the sole male breadwinner-dependant housewife-2.5 kids ideal was far, far less prevalent thruout the century than popular culture depictions would have us believe, especially in the working class families which formed the majority of American households until the late fifties. From the late nineteenth century onward, a majority of factory workers in many fields of skilled labor, especially in the garment, small-manufacturing, and food-packing industries, were female.

I'm wary of any essays, studies, or articles which postulate the "middle class" as the norm, because for most of the twentieth century it *wasn't.*

My mom worked too, as "the help" almost all of her life. The women in my life ALL worked. My point is more and more women (3/4 of my superiors including the Chair of the Commission are women) are outstripping their male counterparts at every turn. I'm not saying it's a bad thing just a REAL thing based upon my observations. I've served in and out of uniform under men and as a civilian under women. I don't care who's in charge long as they can hack the gear.

Worf

 

[Retro Spectator]

Like I stated previously, I believe that the reason companies hire women for high paying jobs is because they can pay them less than men. If the wages for both sexes were equal, then I don't think this would happen.

 

[LizzieMaine]

It's a violation of Federal Law to pay a woman less than a man would receive for the same job, and has been since 1963. The current disparity between male pay and female pay is largely a function of women working fewer overtime hours than men because fewer women work in fields where more overtime is paid. That, however, is changing, and will continue to change.