Have women... in the West at least... "Flipped the Script?"

[Fastuni]

What did you reply to him?

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think these women who are attracted to the man-boy type may have had poor examples of relationships growing up or weren't taught how to find outlets for their need to nurture. Everybody likes to take care of other people, but patience grows thin.

Get a cat. They're cleaner, more intelligent, and take up much less of the bed.

 

[Stormy]

As quietly as it's kept, companies hire women for higher paying jobs because women in such positions are often perceived as more loyal, trustworthy, and responsible.

Like I stated previously, I believe that the reason companies hire women for high paying jobs is because they can pay them less than men. If the wages for both sexes were equal, then I don't think this would happen.

 

[2jakes]

Get a cat. They're cleaner, more intelligent, and take up much less of the bed.

I have a cat & she's all that plus she never nags me if my socks don't match ...

 

[sheeplady]

Get a cat. They're cleaner, more intelligent, and take up much less of the bed.

lol

But there are also some women who have an idea in their head that they always *have* to have a man. Any man (even a man-boy) trumps being single. I guess I can't really understand this, but I come from a place of privilege as I've been married more of my adult life (in a good marriage) than I've single, so I can't understand the pressures on a young woman who is single to be in a relationship. I know that for some of my single girl friends the pressure to get married and settle down is overwhelming once they hit their mid-thirties.

What did you reply to him?

I told him that I stay-at-home for my daughter's sake, not my husband. And that my husband was perfectly capable of cooking, cleaning, and taking care of our daughter as he did it every evening and weekend during the first nine months of our daughter's life while I went through cancer treatment.

He shut up at that point and went to talk to someone else. Pulling the cancer card tends to be the nuclear option.

 

[Stanley Doble]

Some people would rather be in a bad relationship than face the horrible loneliness of being single. Nothing new about this, history is full of bad marriages.

 

[2jakes]

Some people would rather be in a bad relationship than face the horrible loneliness of being single. Nothing new about this, history is full of bad marriages.

Mothers with kids would stay in such a bad
situation since they feel there are no other
choices .Sad.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I met a guy the other day who complimented me on how great it was that I was a stay-at-home-mom because "married men shouldn't have to change diapers, cook, or clean." This guy (by which I mean a male) certainly thought it made him less manly to change a diaper.

Obviously the men who act like this think it is "manly" behavior or they wouldn't act that way and brag about it.

Like I said, I've met men who are like that, but I've never met anyone (other than said male person) who thinks that's acceptable behavior.

 

[LizzieMaine]

lol

But there are also some women who have an idea in their head that they always *have* to have a man. Any man (even a man-boy) trumps being single. I guess I can't really understand this, but I come from a place of privilege as I've been married more of my adult life (in a good marriage) than I've single, so I can't understand the pressures on a young woman who is single to be in a relationship. I know that for some of my single girl friends the pressure to get married and settle down is overwhelming once they hit their mid-thirties.

I know a lot of twenty-something girls who go from one empty, pointless relationship to another -- just for the sake of "being with" somebody -- and then they wonder why they're never happy. I try to tell them they're unhappy because they're so worried about "satisfying" the boyfriend of the moment they aren't taking the time to get to know what they themselves actually want. This is the inevitable result of "hookup" culture -- a generation of people who jump right into "living together" before they even know each other's middle names.

I've recommended Marjorie Hillis's "Live Alone And Like It" to a lot of such girls. What was true in 1937 -- it's entirely possible to live a happy, fulfilling life on your own -- is even more true today, and that message is more needed than ever.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Get a cat. They're cleaner, more intelligent, and take up much less of the bed.

I don't know...a 25 lb cocker spaniel suddenly becomes 600 lbs of dead weight who insists on sleeping in the center of the bed, crossways, at bedtime.

 

[2jakes]

I know a lot of twenty-something girls who go from one empty, pointless relationship to another -- just for the sake of "being with" somebody -- and then they wonder why they're never happy. I try to tell them they're unhappy because they're so worried about "satisfying" the boyfriend of the moment they aren't taking the time to get to know what they themselves actually want. This is the inevitable result of "hookup" culture -- a generation of people who jump right into "living together" before they even know each other's middle names.

I've recommended Marjorie Hillis's "Live Alone And Like It" to a lot of such girls. What was true in 1937 -- it's entirely possible to live a happy, fulfilling life on your own -- is even more true today, and that message is more needed than ever.

It would appear that there is a failure to communicate .



If the girls do not express their own needs, the boys believe all is fine.
Or they are not sensitive to the girl's feelings.

And if the girls do express themselves...then perhaps it falls on deaf ears.
Being that these guys were raised in a self centered situation .

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Get a cat. They're cleaner, more intelligent, and take up much less of the bed.

My bedroom is off limits to El Principe because if it wasn't I would never get any sleep though I have found him sleeping on my bed when the door was ajar. I've been thinking of renaming him Little ba***rd because he's a sneaky one. Often I'll see him laying there apparently asleep and then I would go relax on the couch. No sooner than I do it's THUMP and he's on my shoulder for snuggle time. Ostensibly he's an indoor cat but of late has developed a love for the outdoors. He's already figured out how to open the screen door by himself and now has adopted the tactic of waiting by the front door for someone to open it and then dashing out.

 

[Stanley Doble]

Who was it said she didn't need a man because she had a dog that tracked mud on her clean linoleum, a parrot that cursed at her and a cat that stayed out all night? Lol

 

[ChiTownScion]

I think that the "man-boy" appeals to a woman who needs that nurturing outlet fulfilled in some sort of way. They see the "man-boy" as a project, as someone they can "nurture" to become whole. Taking care of the man-boy appeals to this nurturing side. However, I think that this level of nurturing tends to get old with a lot of women rather quickly when they realize that their nurturing isn't turning their project into a more responsible adult (the man-boy is not becoming a man despite her hard work). I think that in the case of a woman who is a serial "man-boy" dater, what she is doing is dating a man-boy, becomes tired of doing 100% of the heavy lifting, and then dumps the man-boy. Then, because she hasn't developed other avenues for her nurturing, she becomes enamored with another man-boy nurturing project and the cycle repeats itself.

Eventually she may even marry a man-boy- which will result eventually in either a divorce or a stressed marriage. Sometimes she expects the marriage itself- their vows- to transform the man-boy into a man- to make him buy into the marriage or to her. I think this especially breaks down once kids are brought into the relationship and the household work doubles or triples, and the man-boy becomes an additional burden who not only doesn't pull his own weight but adds to the mess. In addition, the children are then fulfilling the nurturing need so the man-boy becomes less appealing from that aspect.

I've heard this complaint from some women that I met when I was in Russia regarding Russian men. As boys the sons were raised by a mother who had to deal with an absentee husband ( widowed, divorced, or just emotionally detached) who doted on their son (usually the only son) 24/7. The boy grows up expecting a woman to wait on him hand and foot, just like Mom did. He marries a nice woman who is then forced to deal with that expectation, the couple become alienated from one another, and the woman eventually finds solace in doting on her son. The cycle repeats, aggravated by a culture that defines manliness, in part, in being able to get blind stinking drunk on a regular basis. "Man -boy" or "man child" may be far too euphemistic of terms when domestic violence is part & parcel of this equation as well.

 

[herringbonekid]

I know a lot of twenty-something girls who go from one empty, pointless relationship to another -- just for the sake of "being with" somebody -- and then they wonder why they're never happy. I try to tell them they're unhappy because they're so worried about "satisfying" the boyfriend of the moment they aren't taking the time to get to know what they themselves actually want. This is the inevitable result of "hookup" culture -- a generation of people who jump right into "living together" before they even know each other's middle names.

I've recommended Marjorie Hillis's "Live Alone And Like It" to a lot of such girls. What was true in 1937 -- it's entirely possible to live a happy, fulfilling life on your own -- is even more true today, and that message is more needed than ever.

if girls have several 'pointless' relationships in a row then i would question their ability to choose decent partners. i don't buy the idea that these poor ladies are only able to realise what a jerk their boyfriend is once they've moved in with him.

secondly, the choice doesn't have to be between rubbish boyfriends or living alone. the other option is finding a decent boyfriend.

 

[Fastuni]

if girls have several 'pointless' relationships in a row then i would question their ability to choose decent partners. (...) the choice doesn't have to be between rubbish boyfriends or living alone. the other option is finding a decent boyfriend.

Quite so. Some girls constantly make very poor choices for boyfriends/partners and wonder why they end up only in abusive relationships with "jerks".

I don't buy the notion that women have always "naturally" been attracted to the "raw appeal" of brutish jerks with no sense of responsibility and decency... it is in large part the media/marketing-created notions of what constitutes a "real male" and the culture of "nice-guy shaming" that have been internalized.
On the other side a whole lot of young men are being told (by peers and media) to be "jerks" or they would get no girlfriend.

 

[herringbonekid]

I don't buy the notion that women have always "naturally" been attracted to the "raw appeal" of brutish jerks with no sense of responsibility and decency.

the pychological reading is usually that women are attracted to the overtly masculine types when they're only after a no-strings-attached sexual enounter, but are attracted to 'sensitive' men when looking for someone to potentially breed with. you can see how young men might distort that bias into "i must act like a modern caveman if i'm going to get laid".

 

[Big J]

I've heard this complaint from some women that I met when I was in Russia regarding Russian men. As boys the sons were raised by a mother who had to deal with an absentee husband ( widowed, divorced, or just emotionally detached) who doted on their son (usually the only son) 24/7. The boy grows up expecting a woman to wait on him hand and foot, just like Mom did. He marries a nice woman who is then forced to deal with that expectation, the couple become alienated from one another, and the woman eventually finds solace in doting on her son. The cycle repeats, aggravated by a culture that defines manliness, in part, in being able to get blind stinking drunk on a regular basis. "Man -boy" or "man child" may be far too euphemistic of terms when domestic violence is part & parcel of this equation as well.

This is quite the norm in Japan, and one of the main reasons why more and more women are choosing not to get married. It's seen as a social crisis here that women are choosing not to get married and have two babies to look after; the husband and the child!

 

[herringbonekid]

This is quite the norm in Japan, and one of the main reasons why more and more women are choosing not to get married. It's seen as a social crisis here that women are choosing not to get married and have two babies to look after; the husband and the child!

i saw a documentary on this phenomena not long ago; lots of young Japanese men addicted to digital games, pornography and 'virtual' girlfriends who are scared of the idea of actually forming a relationship with a real woman.
while it's very troubling (and easy to mock) we need to look at the reasons behind it; many of these same young men feel that they can't provide a decent standard of living for a family due to the job/economic situation, and can't make more money than their parents did, so they already see themselves as having failed.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

A real man, in my view, is someone who doesn't spend all his time whining about how the mean girls won't let him be a real man.

Lizzie, I really like how you handled this thread and this quote is so very true. :eusa_clap

I second that, and want to add that a real man doesn't complain that he has 'been friend-zoned', when a gal wises up to the fact he hasn't been straight with her, and he was only trying to get in her panties.

True. That's why I don't get the "men chase women" arguement. Maybe they attempt to do so but they don't always suceed. And if they don't accept this it can only end badly.

Seems kind of harsh telling someone to grow up.

Sooner or later he needs to.