Have the cowboy movies brainwashed me?

[xwray]

I'm currently reading "The Last of the Mountain Men" by Harold Peterson, the true story of Sylvan Hart. The author tends toward the poetic at times but it is an interesting read nevertheless. Anyhow, I've exerpted a couple paragraphs below describing one of the author's experiences while interviewing Sylvan at his primitive home on the banks of the Salmon river wilderness in Idaho. The author had been visiting with Sylvan and they were now resting from the oppressive heat - note the reference to the Derby hat.

"A thermometer registered 104 degrees. A large horsefly droned briefly. Nothing further was said.The halt might have seemed sudden, abrupt, had it not been so natural. Here it was only part of the cyclical course of a day. We sat wordlessly, and without need of words, surveying surroundings whitewashed with light and fervent heat.

Silence, an almost palpable quantity had settled down -- the protracted, unbroken silence of the frontier. It was like this, this midday spell, long ago in the staging stations and outpost forts and squared adobe towns of the old west. Man whittled in warmly hay-scented livery stables, stared stolidly out at the vibrating, on-rolling tablelands from smoky oaken day coaches, from under brims of derby hats, sprawled watching diffident shrunken creeks trickle by from under the shade of cottonwood trees."

My question - were Derbys the predominant headwear during the mid to late 1800s in the west? I've always been under the impression they wore "cowboy" hats with wide brims - is that mostly "hollywood history"

 

[gtdean48]

I'm currently reading "The Last of the Mountain Men" by Harold Peterson, the true story of Sylvan Hart. The author tends toward the poetic at times but it is an interesting read nevertheless. Anyhow, I've exerpted a couple paragraphs below describing one of the author's experiences while interviewing Sylvan at his primitive home on the banks of the Salmon river wilderness in Idaho. The author had been visiting with Sylvan and they were now resting from the oppressive heat - note the reference to the Derby hat.

"A thermometer registered 104 degrees. A large horsefly droned briefly. Nothing further was said.The halt might have seemed sudden, abrupt, had it not been so natural. Here it was only part of the cyclical course of a day. We sat wordlessly, and without need of words, surveying surroundings whitewashed with light and fervent heat.

Silence, an almost palpable quantity had settled down -- the protracted, unbroken silence of the frontier. It was like this, this midday spell, long ago in the staging stations and outpost forts and squared adobe towns of the old west. Man whittled in warmly hay-scented livery stables, stared stolidly out at the vibrating, on-rolling tablelands from smoky oaken day coaches, from under brims of derby hats, sprawled watching diffident shrunken creeks trickle by from under the shade of cottonwood trees."

My question - were Derbys the predominant headwear during the mid to late 1800s in the west? I've always been under the impression they wore "cowboy" hats with wide brims - is that mostly "hollywood history"

That description seems to me to be about staging sations, forts & towns where a derby would be a predominant hat. The "cowboy" hat was more of a range/cattle drive situation type of headwear.

 

[xwray]

That would make sense...I had read it to mean "everybody everywhere" was just so hot they all settled in the shade somewhere to wait until things got more bearable.

 

[Mobile Vulgus]

I have a handful of photos of cowboys from between 1880 and 1910 in my collection of antique photos. Most cowboys wore what was called a "sugarloaf" hat for much of the old west era. Larger brim and taller crown than a city hat, but not necessarily the same as we think of a "cowboy hat" today. Most cowboys wore hats with crowns that had no crease but with a wide brim exceeding 3 inches and with that brim simply flat (sometimes curled at the edge). The movie-type cowboy hat with the heavily swept brims and tall, deeply creased crowns were more popular much later in the west, really (like after the 1900s). In the 1880s and 1890s hats began to look more like what we call a cowboy hat with creases and brims formed in various positions. The Montana Peak was popular in the 1880s and 1890s and later. Still, the Tom Mix type cowboy hat is of later vintage than the true old west era (1860 to 1890) from what I can tell.

 

[dhermann1]

I believe that anyone who had to be out in the sun all day, like a cowboy, would have a wide brimmed hat for protection. Town dwellers had a greater variety of head gear. I believe a lot wore hats we might identify as fedoras, meaning hats with brims a couple inches wide, but not as wide as a cowboy hat. Folks in the old west were anxious to look as fashionable as people in the big cities whenever possible. I think it was a status thing, the more respectable you were, the more your dress was like the general populace.

 

[Richard Warren]

Yes.

 

[Art Fawcett]

If I remember history correctly, Stetson didn't make his first western till 1857 on a trip west for health reasons so, depending on the date we are talking about it may well have been the Derby as the norm.

 

[danofarlington]

I have a handful of photos of cowboys from between 1880 and 1910 in my collection of antique photos. Most cowboys wore what was called a "sugarloaf" hat for much of the old west era. Larger brim and taller crown than a city hat, but not necessarily the same as we think of a "cowboy hat" today. Most cowboys wore hats with crowns that had no crease but with a wide brim exceeding 3 inches and with that brim simply flat (sometimes curled at the edge). The movie-type cowboy hat with the heavily swept brims and tall, deeply creased crowns were more popular much later in the west, really (like after the 1900s). In the 1880s and 1890s hats began to look more like what we call a cowboy hat with creases and brims formed in various positions. The Montana Peak was popular in the 1880s and 1890s and later. Still, the Tom Mix type cowboy hat is of later vintage than the true old west era (1860 to 1890) from what I can tell.

I wish someone would make a photo album of hat style progression from the earliest times, like the 1850s, through the 1950s or 60s. I think you can understand a lot about the styles, and make inferences about the times, by seeing the decade-by-decade changes. You could do that with any fashion (ladies' dresses, men's suits) and get a similar understanding. If we had that, then everyone could use their intuition better as to how to properly date a hat.

For example, although not a hat scholar as some of the members here are, I think I can recognize decades of hat style by virtue of remembering movies of the day. The tall crown and wide ribbon hat of James Cagney in Public Enemy presents a style of the day, which you wouldn't find that in the 40s. Teddy Rooselvelt type hats of the Rough Rider days are distinctive. And so on.

 

[carouselvic]

c.1890

 

[scottyrocks]

Whooof! This is far from the glamorous cowboy life we see in movies and on TV. It makes me itch just looking at them.

 

[danofarlington]

Whooof! This is far from the glamorous cowboy life we see in movies and on TV. It makes me itch just looking at them.

Another thing that would be interesting is to run a photo album of Hollywood movie hat styles, decade by decade, alongside what the real photos are, such as the one above. That would probably explode more than a few stylistic misconceptions cherished by the public. Sort of like Butch Cassidy in a derby hat, which sounds like the actual style of the West, as opposed to the 1950s TV series version of Western hats of the day.

 

[gtdean48]

Whooof! This is far from the glamorous cowboy life we see in movies and on TV. It makes me itch just looking at them.

Aren't we glad that photos don't capture the smells too????

 

[zetwal]

Aren't we glad that photos don't capture the smells too????

I am reminded of the bean eating scene in Blazing Saddles!

 

[Richard Warren]

of possible interest:

http://www.curtrich.com/hats.html

 

[Undertow]

I am reminded of the bean eating scene in Blazing Saddles!

Haha, that's what came to my mind, too!

 

[zetwal]

For those of you who don't know what we are laughing about ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6dm9rN6oTs

 

[Mobile Vulgus]

Notice how those hats do not have deep creases in the crowns like we think of with movie cowboy hats?

 

[monbla256]

I'd forgotten about that scene One of the funniest ever made !

 

[Aerol]

Yes, you've been brainwashed

Take a look at these photos from the National Archives:

http://www.archives.gov/research/american-west/

The section called Life From the Land has some excellent photos of every day living.

 

[scottyrocks]

I am reminded of the bean eating scene in Blazing Saddles!

I get the feeling that the the concept of the bean eating scene smelled better than whats in the photo.