Hats and Privacy Vs Public Security

[Topper]

throwback to the Reformation
dean

Aye reformation - can live with that - Its least it's not the Spanish Inquistion....

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It such a strange over nannying situation that is being proposed. Imaging If you were stopped in a open public space and told to remove you hat due to some obscure interfeering PC bylaw... and refused - what would happen ....would the police come to talk to you e.t.c. and if so, would they have to remove their hats before approaching you ??? - I would doubt they would agree to it.

 

[carter]

Originally posted by Topper
It such a strange over nannying situation that is being proposed. Imaging If you were stopped in a open public space and told to remove you hat due to some obscure interfeering PC bylaw... and refused - what would happen ....would the police come to talk to you e.t.c. and if so, would they have to remove their hats before approaching you ??? - I would doubt they would agree to it.

Too right! Now where's that dog? Neil...

 

[Ben]

I suppose you could hide your face from a security camera but why would any law abiding person need to do that?

This old saw about if you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear always bugs me. It doesn't matter if I am not doing anything wrong, all that matters is that it isn't anybody's business what I am doing.

To be fair, in public you do give up some privacy, that's the price you pay for being in public, but why should my every move be subject to scrutiny.

Maybe it is just that I don't want people to see how boring I really am. It destroys my image as a man of mystery. Maybe I sometimes like to break out in my version of the old softshoe but am a horrible dancer.
Either way, I don't think I should become the subject of someone's security camera joke.

If I am not doing anything wrong, then no one should have the reason to watch me. And as I recall, it is still innocent until proven guilt, with the exception of the Napoleonic code areas.

 

[D00R]

I like to where my hat for privacy. I wear a large brim Borsalino its good for blocking out any unwanted looks from passer bys or crude remark from close minded long islanders.
But I wear my hat for me. Anyone who see's me in it will remember me cause of it. Rarity seeing many of people walking town with a Borsalino on there crown.

 

[RokkerMan]

i can see that, but wearing a fedora in birmingham, al definitely gets you noticed more than the other guy!

 

[surely]

This thread got me thinking why do I wear hats. Because I want to send a signal to the world how I am feeling. So I want/need many hats to match my many moods.

 

[Alan Eardley]

<Snip> It (is) such a strange over nannying situation that is being proposed. Imaging If you were stopped in a open public space and told to remove you hat due to some obscure interfeering PC bylaw... and refused - what would happen ....would the police come to talk to you e.t.c. and if so, would they have to remove their hats before approaching you ??? - I would doubt they would agree to it.

This is the point. To understand it, we need to differentiate between Statute Law ('law of the land'), bye-laws (local) and rules or regulations. A restaurant or shopping mall can have a rule that you do not wear hats on its premises for 'security' reasons or just because it wants to. That is not a law and can only be enforced by asking you to remove the hat or leave. Now, if you refuse to do that, they can call the police. If you refuse to leave then, you are subject to the law and to possible arrest. That at least gives you the option to leave (which I would be only to pleased to do from such an establishment anyway) without breaking the law.

The issue of local authority (council) owned space such as car parks, public parks and town squares would be covered immediately by local or bye-laws, like those recently covering the drinking of alcohol in such public places (bye-law) . If those bye-laws were extended to cover hats* (for 'security' reasons, of course) you would be breaking the law immediately by wearing one. No get out. Suppose you didn't see the sign? Tough.

* I am assuming that not even the UK would make it a statute law not to wear a hat in a public place. Smoking in public in the UK is now covered by statute law.

Alan

 

[Kishtu]

Just as an adjunct to Alan's post, there was a quite recent incident where an older lady had gone into a local bar (I think one of the Wetherspoons variety) for a cup of coffee, whilst wearing a neat little hat. She was asked to remove it and when she declined to do so, was asked to leave.

So the anti-hat feeling is a pretty blanket thing for UK businesses, it would seem.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Just as an adjunct to Alan's post, there was a quite recent incident where an older lady had gone into a local bar (I think one of the Wetherspoons variety) for a cup of coffee, whilst wearing a neat little hat. She was asked to remove it and when she declined to do so, was asked to leave.

So the anti-hat feeling is a pretty blanket thing for UK businesses, it would seem.

Kishtu,

That would be 82 year old Mrs Wilbraham of Ely in Cambridgeshire. A pillar of the local community (chair of her Womens' Institute), an inspiration to generations (career school teacher) and threat to no-one. The case was covered exhaustively in a previous thread before you graced us with your presence. Ely is quite close to King's Lynn, where the first public CCTV cameras were installed. I'm sure you know these small, quiet English towns. Others would be surprised that such charming places feel the need for that sort of security.

Alan

 

[Kishtu]

That would be the lady I was thinking of, indeed. Thank you Alan, that would have bothered me all day!

I think hats for me are a symbol of respect, and that (I think) is what we lose by making them into some kind of sinister stereotype. Gone are the days when one raises one's hat to a lady, or removes one's hat in church or - as I can still remember my grandparents doing - at the passing of a funeral cortege. It was a visible sign of respect.

So maybe, in demonising the hat wearer, there's some kind of subliminal thing in that the powers that be is also trying to remove a social signal? just a thought....

 

[Valhson]

This thread got me thinking why do I wear hats. Because I want to send a signal to the world how I am feeling. So I want/need many hats to match my many moods.

That is a great point. I was thinking the same thing.

I know what it is for me. It is just comforting. I grew up in a typical old fashion strict southern family. From the age of 6 there were things you always had with you. Your “wallet (at the time it was just an identification card and couple sticks of gum) a hankie, a pocket knife and a hat. Didn’t matter what type but if you were outside and not playing football or something like that you had it with you. Yeah and it was a ball cap but none the less a cap.

Now I wear the fedora in the colder weather and a driving cap in the summer months. It is a comfort thing for me. Something I don’t like to leave the house without and it is nothing more than habit. Then again, I do have a personal affection for a nice hat.

 

[Twitch]

Privacy ended a long time ago. We all have all our information spread all over cyberspace and it dwells in the databanks of every institution you deal with financially.

Get real. When you stroll into the corner Kwikee Mart and ask Habib for a Squishy and are being taped the whole time you know the jig is up don't you?

 

[carter]

Originally posted by Twitch
Get real. When you stroll into the corner Kwikee Mart and ask Habib for a Squishy and are being taped the whole time you know the jig is up don't you?

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
Oooooo......sarcasm. GREAT!

Let's start a new thread, Hats and Piracy!

I'll change my user name to Kidd and sign on Habib as my Ishmael!

 

[MikeS]

B.O.T. (sorry)


If you've ever seen an old western you've probably seen people use the brim to their advantage, or as intimidation.

(Someone yells from across the room. His hat slowly raises as he peers from behind the brim to confront the interloper.)

Great stuff.

 

[LEUII]

i can see that, but wearing a fedora in birmingham, al definitely gets you noticed more than the other guy!

It's the same down here in Mobile.

 

[surely]

i've been wondering: would i give greater weight to freedon or privacy. i've decided that its better to be free to think and feel and to express myself even though everyone else is free to observe me. whew

 

[deanglen]

Looks so far like wearing a hat can make one a security risk in some eyes, given the realities we face these days. Then when they tell us we can't, we feel our privacy has been tampered with, our freedom encroached upon. Our UK Loungers seem to face it more acutely. What more can we say?

dean

 

[Edward]

Notice also that the leading men in a lot of movies, both Golden Era and modern period pieces wear their fedoras way back on their heads, so that the audience can see their faces.

Funnily enough, I was just thinking about this the other day.... well, primarily Indy Jones, really. It did occur to me that one reason for the invention of the snapped brim might be that it allowed the hat to be worn further back on the head, but still give the eyes and face the benefit of direct coverage by the brim (rather than the brim sticking up and away at 45 degrees). Presumambly the upturn at the back also keeps it clear(er) of the shoulders when worn tipped back...

Just as an adjunct to Alan's post, there was a quite recent incident where an older lady had gone into a local bar (I think one of the Wetherspoons variety) for a cup of coffee, whilst wearing a neat little hat. She was asked to remove it and when she declined to do so, was asked to leave.

So the anti-hat feeling is a pretty blanket thing for UK businesses, it would seem.

FWIW, it seems to me that this type of anti-hat rule is not so much a PC thing in its application as a case of the jobsworths - i.e. the rule gets enforced for its own sake and the purpose behind it is forgotten... I'm reminded of the old story of the Emperor's guards and the flower.

 

[Twitch]

When have any of you seen a police mug shot with the crook wearing a hat? Never that's when. The reason is simply to get a clear image of the face and head. If that's encroaching on rights then so is "taking" fingerprints.

No democratic country in the world will ever forbid its citizens from wearing headgear. It is quit a differnent scenario to stand before the immigration guy with your passport and he asks you to remove your hat for identification purposes.

BTW- this was on TV recently. A man in London was robbed in sight of multiple cameras. Great he thinks. I'll go ask them to look at the tapes and ID the perpetrators for eventual arrest. Boffo!

No dice chum! The department that could do that told him they're too busy with terrorist-related stuff. What irony! They have the technological means but don't have the time, money or manpower! :eusa_doh:

Real similar to pre-911 when the intel agencies had arab language phone tapes backed up so far they had no hope of hearing any pertinent, current theat.

So for my part those cameras pointed up every Brit's kazoo 24/7 are totally worthless and a cruel joke besides.:rage:

 

[indycop]

For what its worth as a policeman the only time I ever mess with somebodys hat is when its covering a lot of hair (dreads) as they do conceal weapons in those things ( no lie) and that's not because they are wearing a hat but because I am dealing with them for something else and am searching them anyway. Some gang members hide razor blades in the bands of their hats. There are some ridiculous laws on the books probably everywhere. At least in florida when you get certified as a police officer you learn the difference in the letter of the law and the spirit of the law, to keep you from doing things that shouldn't be done even though legally according to statute you can.
As a police officer we even deal with no privacy. I stopped to provide backup for a young coworker on a traffic stop. As he was doing his business a guy walks by and takes his picture with a camera phone. The officer yells at him that he can't do that. I had to tell him that yes he can do that, and that he should know that he has less privacy than others. (Hard to tell young cops stuff just like anybody else).