Hat Wearing pre-1960 vs. 2017

[John the Swede]

Just had a conversation with my students (I teach at a small college): We were discussing the differences between hat wearing--and wearers--from years ago (pre-1960s) and today. A couple of other hat wearers jumped in (some are non-traditional students) and claimed that since hats aren't in the mainstream fashion, although some people do wear them, there's a disconnect between "proper" hat wearing and current traditions. For example (after I asked), the case was brought forward that a lot of people size incorrectly (same could be said, someone suggested, and was briefly, until I reigned us back to where we actually were, for shoes). Do you think there's a tendency today to wear hats that are too big? That is to say, do you think a lot of people are either not knowing their "proper" head size and/or simply wearing looser than in past years? I'm interested to hear what you all think.

 

[steur]

Just had a conversation with my students (I teach at a small college): We were discussing the differences between hat wearing--and wearers--from years ago (pre-1960s) and today. A couple of other hat wearers jumped in (some are non-traditional students) and claimed that since hats aren't in the mainstream fashion, although some people do wear them, there's a disconnect between "proper" hat wearing and current traditions. For example (after I asked), the case was brought forward that a lot of people size incorrectly (same could be said, someone suggested, and was briefly, until I reigned us back to where we actually were, for shoes). Do you think there's a tendency today to wear hats that are too big? That is to say, do you think a lot of people are either not knowing their "proper" head size and/or simply wearing looser than in past years? I'm interested to hear what you all think.

I am inclined to think there certainly is a difference. Clothes (suits, shirts, shoes) in the past were not a throw-away item, expensive and made to last, to be worn an treated with care. More care was taken therefore that the items would fit properly and were of good quality. Hand me down garments were common in most families. With the rise of cheap textile production garments became much cheaper and because clothing can now be considered a throw-away item to be worn one season and then thrown away the fashion brands all make two collections every year. The same goes for hats. If you'd spend a weeks' salary on a hat, you'd take care that the hat would fit you properly and was of good quality. Hats were considered outerwear (like a coat) to protect the head from the elements. These days hats, while still technically outerwear, are an accessory, a fashion statement. To be bought and worn when hats are "in" and thrown away when hats are "so 2016". Hats by fashion brands and hatmakers that supply them don't even have "proper" headsizes anymore, just the s, m, l and xl sizes. I don't really know if it's true that there's a tendecy to wear hats too big, but if so, I would think it's because there was no hat that fitted the wearer properly.

 

[KarlCrow]

I am inclined to think there certainly is a difference. Clothes (suits, shirts, shoes) in the past were not a throw-away item, expensive and made to last, to be worn an treated with care. More care was taken therefore that the items would fit properly and were of good quality. Hand me down garments were common in most families. With the rise of cheap textile production garments became much cheaper and because clothing can now be considered a throw-away item to be worn one season and then thrown away the fashion brands all make two collections every year. The same goes for hats. If you'd spend a weeks' salary on a hat, you'd take care that the hat would fit you properly and was of good quality. Hats were considered outerwear (like a coat) to protect the head from the elements. These days hats, while still technically outerwear, are an accessory, a fashion statement. To be bought and worn when hats are "in" and thrown away when hats are "so 2016". Hats by fashion brands and hatmakers that supply them don't even have "proper" headsizes anymore, just the s, m, l and xl sizes. I don't really know if it's true that there's a tendecy to wear hats too big, but if so, I would think it's because there was no hat that fitted the wearer properly.

Gloves, impossible now to get a pair that fit me well, like a glove. My hands are a size different to eachother and neither is normally s, m or l. Phillip Roth's novel American Pastoral depicts the dying of the art of factory high volume quality glove making well, amongst other things. Probably one of the better novels of the past half century.

 

[Seb Lucas]

This is hard to answer with any certainty. Hats were also worn differently in different places and over time. For instance, wearing a hat high on the head was common here in the 1920's-30's. Many folk today would say the hats looked too small.

 

[KarlCrow]

They are a fashion item, always were, so are shoes, boots etc... Just look at the way actors wear combat clobber. This isn't to say everyone has style. I remember briefly in the 80s wearing a yellow plastic hard hat that had taken a hit, it gave it a cool lilt. I figured on smoke breaks that I stood out from the catcalling labourers. Clipboard carriers used approach me thinking I was the boss.

 

[hatsRme]

They are a fashion item, always were, so are shoes, boots etc... Just look at the way actors wear combat clobber. This isn't to say everyone has style. I remember briefly in the 80s wearing a yellow plastic hard hat that had taken a hit, it gave it a cool lilt. I figured on smoke breaks that I stood out from the catcalling labourers. Clipboard carriers used approach me thinking I was the boss.

Any pictures remaining of that yellow hat, Karl?!

 

[KarlCrow]

Any pictures remaining of that yellow hat, Karl?!

Luckily not that I know of.

 

[belfastboy]

Not sure this applies to proper hats but it does apply to ball caps and may have spilled over into fedoras/hipster hats. A few years back a trend began in the black community for guys to wear oversized baseball caps, especially the replica New Era caps. They would be large enough to be worn over the ears. This "look" spread to a few professional players as well. It may have been an extension of the fashion of wearing overly large clothing, from Tshirts, to jeans to untied tan coloured work boots. A general uber casual slouch look. Or perhaps a conscious effort to distance from the look of the suited white boy wearing a tailored suit that looks like it belonged to a much smaller person or had shrunk in the rain.

 

[Wesslyn]

Clothes have gotten smaller, hats have gotten bigger.
When I first started wearing hats, I considered myself a 7 3/8. Now I consider myself somewhere between 1/8 and 1/4.
Although a lot of folks these days don't seem to really continue the hat obsession and likely stick with whatever theyre most comfortable with.
However I can't for the life of understand how the too small clothes these days are comfortable. I mean, I like a slim fit but damn...

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Just had a conversation with my students (I teach at a small college): We were discussing the differences between hat wearing--and wearers--from years ago (pre-1960s) and today. A couple of other hat wearers jumped in (some are non-traditional students) and claimed that since hats aren't in the mainstream fashion, although some people do wear them, there's a disconnect between "proper" hat wearing and current traditions. For example (after I asked), the case was brought forward that a lot of people size incorrectly (same could be said, someone suggested, and was briefly, until I reigned us back to where we actually were, for shoes). Do you think there's a tendency today to wear hats that are too big? That is to say, do you think a lot of people are either not knowing their "proper" head size and/or simply wearing looser than in past years? I'm interested to hear what you all think.

I've had similar questions. As to shoes, I took a blue collar friend shoe shopping for a pending wedding. He liked a pair of shoes and they looked great for the intended purpose, but them decided against them when he found out that they were two full sizes smaller than he normally bought. He took some sort of bizarre pride in having big feet and did not like being confronted with the reality that his feet were average size.

As to hats, I have wondered why it's so hard to find vintage hats in larger sizes. Have men's heads gotten larger in just 2-3 generations? Seems impossible. I'm a true 61mm (7 5/8") medium oval hat size, and it takes a lot of work to find hats in my size. As to people wearing hats in the wrong size, I'm certain that is a problem but I'm not sure how prevalent it is. I don't think it's like the horrific "style" of wearing baggy jeans that cause the crotch to sag to the knees. If people are buying the wrong size hats I suspect it is from ignorance or the lack of access to a good haberdashery.

 

[Redfokker]

Yes, I leave the skinny jeans to the young crowd, and wear my hats with a custom fit. My wife says I don't have the supple booty for tight clothes, I bow to her wisdom.

 

[Redfokker]

I've had similar questions. As to shoes, I took a blue collar friend shoe shopping for a pending wedding. He liked a pair of shoes and they looked great for the intended purpose, but them decided against them when he found out that they were two full sizes smaller than he normally bought. He took some sort of bizarre pride in having big feet and did not like being confronted with the reality that his feet were average size.

As to hats, I have wondered why it's so hard to find vintage hats in larger sizes. Have men's heads gotten larger in just 2-3 generations? Seems impossible. I'm a true 61mm (7 5/8") medium oval hat size, and it takes a lot of work to find hats in my size. As to people wearing hats in the wrong size, I'm certain that is a problem but I'm not sure how prevalent it is. I don't think it's like the horrific "style" of wearing baggy jeans that cause the crotch to sag to the knees. If people are buying the wrong size hats I suspect it is from ignorance or the lack of access to a good haberdashery.

+1 every man needs a proper Haberdasher, I have one. And a hatter as well.

 

[belfastboy]

I've had similar questions. As to shoes, I took a blue collar friend shoe shopping for a pending wedding. He liked a pair of shoes and they looked great for the intended purpose, but them decided against them when he found out that they were two full sizes smaller than he normally bought. He took some sort of bizarre pride in having big feet and did not like being confronted with the reality that his feet were average size.

As to hats, I have wondered why it's so hard to find vintage hats in larger sizes. Have men's heads gotten larger in just 2-3 generations? Seems impossible. I'm a true 61mm (7 5/8") medium oval hat size, and it takes a lot of work to find hats in my size. As to people wearing hats in the wrong size, I'm certain that is a problem but I'm not sure how prevalent it is. I don't think it's like the horrific "style" of wearing baggy jeans that cause the crotch to sag to the knees. If people are buying the wrong size hats I suspect it is from ignorance or the lack of access to a good haberdashery.

I would think the lack of hats sized larger than 7 3/8" has to be evidence of heads grown larger. The other explanations don't seem to make sense.....did men with larger heads treat their hats more harshly so that few still exist? I am a clone of my Dad and cannot wear any of his vintage clothes or hats as I am a size larger in hats and two sizes up in clothing.

I know it does not apply to us regular folks but I can't help recall the SF Giant's clubhouse boy remarking that over the years of Barry Bond's steroid use his head grew from a standard 7 1/4 so the clubhouse boy ended up supplying him with size 8+ ball caps.

 

[Wesslyn]

People do seem to be getting taller, bigger, fuller...
I'm about half a foot taller than my pop and wear a hat Size bigger. But it seems there were tall guys "back in the day" too. Jimmy Stewart, John Wayne, Clark Gable... Pretty tall dudes. Were they rare breeds?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I would think the lack of hats sized larger than 7 3/8" has to be evidence of heads grown larger. The other explanations don't seem to make sense.....did men with larger heads treat their hats more harshly so that few still exist? I am a clone of my Dad and cannot wear any of his vintage clothes or hats as I am a size larger in hats and two sizes up in clothing.

I know it does not apply to us regular folks but I can't help recall the SF Giant's clubhouse boy remarking that over the years of Barry Bond's steroid use his head grew from a standard 7 1/4 so the clubhouse boy ended up supplying him with size 8+ ball caps.

Interesting. Since evolution is not a possible explanation for 2-3 generations, is diet responsible? I know I'm not taking steroids (unless it's in my food?).

I don't have any clothing from my father and such antidotal evidence is not compelling and lacks any expectation of why heads are getting bigger.

Surely someone has done some sort of scientifically validated study. Does anyone know of such a study?

 

[belfastboy]

People do seem to be getting taller, bigger, fuller...
I'm about half a foot taller than my pop and wear a hat Size bigger. But it seems there were tall guys "back in the day" too. Jimmy Stewart, John Wayne, Clark Gable... Pretty tall dudes. Were they rare breeds?

As a cultural marker look at the size of athletes these days compared to 50 years ago. In football defensive lineman would run 220lbs back then and a 300lb plus was unheard of....now they won't look at you unless you are well into the 300lb range.

 

[belfastboy]

Interesting. Since evolution is not a possible explanation for 2-3 generations, is diet responsible? I know I'm not taking steroids (unless it's in my food?).

I don't have any clothing from my father and such antidotal evidence is not compelling and lacks any expectation of why heads are getting bigger.

Surely someone has done some sort of scientifically validated study. Does anyone know of such a study?

Phrenology?

 

[hatsRme]

Not sure this applies to proper hats but it does apply to ball caps and may have spilled over into fedoras/hipster hats. A few years back a trend began in the black community for guys to wear oversized baseball caps, especially the replica New Era caps. They would be large enough to be worn over the ears. This "look" spread to a few professional players as well. It may have been an extension of the fashion of wearing overly large clothing, from Tshirts, to jeans to untied tan coloured work boots. A general uber casual slouch look. Or perhaps a conscious effort to distance from the look of the suited white boy wearing a tailored suit that looks like it belonged to a much smaller person or had shrunk in the rain.

All I could think of was this guy on the left about 3-4 nights ago on a CNN "Town Hall" meeting.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

As a cultural marker look at the size of athletes these days compared to 50 years ago. In football defensive lineman would run 220lbs back then and a 300lb plus was unheard of....now they won't look at you unless you are well into the 300lb range.

Good point. Still, I don't think that most of us are using steroids. I don't doubt that mens heads are larger now, I just don't know why. My real issue is that I'm not a size 6 3/4 so I could buy some of the wonderful vintage hats out there.

 

[belfastboy]

Interesting. Since evolution is not a possible explanation for 2-3 generations, is diet responsible? I know I'm not taking steroids (unless it's in my food?).

I don't have any clothing from my father and such antidotal evidence is not compelling and lacks any expectation of why heads are getting bigger.

Surely someone has done some sort of scientifically validated study. Does anyone know of such a study?

Yes, I googled it!!! There have been multiple studies and we humans are upwards of 4" taller now than one hundred years ago. It is attributed to a number of factors, diet/nutrition etc but also attributed to evolution. I read an article from Live Science and it was most interesting. 5'8" used to be the average height of an American. The bad news is that we are not just growing taller as a species we are, across the world, growing much fatter.