hat sizing frustration

[Blackthorn]

I never expected to see such differences in hat sizes, even between two colors of the same manufacturer and same model. A couple of months ago I ordered a Stetson Downs in the color of Cordova. I usually wear a 7 1/4, and the S. Downs fitted perfectly. I liked the fit so much that I ordered another one just like it but in Caribou, and of course in the same size. When the Caribou arrived, it was too small to fit on my head. I was in consternation, double checking the size tag on both hats. Finally I contacted the seller (Hats Plus) and they graciously allowed me to send it back for another of the same model, one size larger. The 7 3/8 arrived today, and it fits, but...just barely. It's a tighter fit than the Cordova one that's a 7 1/4. And then there's the Fed IV that I had to get in size 60 (7 1/2). I'm paranoid about ordering any more hats because, where do you start in picking a size?

 

[tonyb]

Do you happen to have a tailor's tape? If so, measure your head at the point you wish your hat to ride. Take that number in inches and divide by 3.14.

Provided you measured properly (do it a few times) you should now have your hat size, by the American standard. But, as you've learned, just because there's a standard doesn't mean it is followed. There's more uniformity in sizes than in some other matters of the hat (such as "X" designations), but they can be quite inconsistent.

 

[barrowjh]

If you have measured your noggin, this site converts to size:
www.hatlife.com/headsize.php
there are other sites also.

a friend of mine at work was certain he was a 7 1/2 because his Stetson fedora (purchased within the past 5 years) fit him right, and it was a 7 1/2. However, when he ordered a Milan 7 1/2, it fell to his nose, and then he got a 7 3/8, and it is ok, but still a bit loose. I had ordered one of those hat sizer tools (with the scissor-type grip) and brought it into the office to check the two hats, the Stetson measured out to just shy of 7 3/8ths, so it was the 1st Stetson that was the culprit, it had been sized wrong. Incorrect sizing happens all the time, errors at the factory, to all lines of clothing, which is why we prefer to try them on before taking them home; hats are no different, there will be an error rate, I suspect all of the factory-made hats have an error rate.

 

[Dewhurst]

Yeah, the size of hats can produce much wailing and gnashing of teeth.:rage:

Get the best measurement you can using a fabric or plastic tailors tape, and then take your pick of sizing charts (they differ from one another so much).

I have found 7 1/4 sized hats to fit about like 22 7/8 inches in measurement, and 7 3/8 sized hats to fit about like 23 1/4 inches in measurement. I'm about 23 inches exactly, so it depends on what style of hat it is and how much I anticipate shrinkage that determines what size I go with.

I expect there are a lot of us in this boat! All aboard, next stop lunacy.

 

[Not-Bogart13]

Yep. Sizing is a headache. The best you can do is check your actual head measurement against each manufacturer's sizing chart. It's not full proof, but does help a little. After that, it's trial and error, unfortunately. You can try to get return costs refunded by telling them you ordered according to their size chart, and it was wrong. Sometimes it will work. All I can say is, I hope you're not actually between sizes. Because then it gets REALLY tough. :rage:

 

[Blackthorn]

Yep. Sizing is a headache. The best you can do is check your actual head measurement against each manufacturer's sizing chart. It's not full proof, but does help a little. After that, it's trial and error, unfortunately. You can try to get return costs refunded by telling them you ordered according to their size chart, and it was wrong. Sometimes it will work. All I can say is, I hope you're not actually between sizes. Because then it gets REALLY tough. :rage:

I appreciate all the words of wisdom from you guys, thanks. My worry isn't that I might be between sizes, it's more the frustration that the 7 3/8 is smaller than the 7 1/4 and that the first two 7 1/4's were so vastly different in size. I am delighted that the vendor was kind enough to allow an exchange, but it has me frustrated with Stetson. Maybe this just means I'm an Akubra kinda guy.

 

[elvisroe]

ask the hatter

I've found that a good online store (like hatsdirect) will have a good idea about the relative size of the hats. She talked me up from a 59 to a 60 in a fed iv and was spot on.
It's certainly worth asking the question.

 

[bendingoak]

This is the problem you will find with trying to buy off the rack. The hat size charts from different brands never match and are off by a little. I'm shocked that this doesn't happen more often.


Here's just 2 charts

cm inches UK Universal USA
53 21 6 1/2 x-small 6 5/8
54 21 1/4 6 5/8 small 6 3/4
55 21 3/4 6 3/4 small 6 7/8
56 22 1/8 6 7/8 medium 7
57 22 1/2 7 medium 7 1/8
58 22 7/8 7 1/8 med large 7 1/4
59 23 1/4 7 1/4 large 7 3/8
60 23 3/4 7 3/8 large 7 1/2
61 24 1/4 7 1/2 x-large 7 5/8
62 24 1/2 7 5/8 x-large 7 3/4
63 24 7/8 7 3/4 xx-large 7 7/8



HEAD MEASUREMENT (INCHES) AMERICAN HAT SIZE EUROPEAN HAT SIZE (CM)
21 1/8 6 3/4 S 54
21 1/2 6 7/8 55
21 7/8 7 M 56
22 1/4 7 1/8 57
22 5/8 7 1/4 L 58
23 7 3/8 59
23 1/2 7 1/2 XL 60
23 7/8 7 5/8 61
24 1/4 7 3/4 XXL 62
24 5/8 7 7/8 XXL 63



How can they be this off? Someone did their math wrong.

The best advise I can give someone from buying a hat off the rack is to take your measurements ( or better yet let someone do it for you ). It's hard to measure one's own noggin. Then ask the company you are buying from what they would suggest. They should know how their hats fit. If you do the math to convert you will get a true hat size and I have yet to find a place that uses a true hat size,


John

 

[gtdean48]

As stated above, it sounds like you got a mislabeled hat. It happens & from this place, a little too often. I ordered 3 Campdrafts from Akubra in 3 different colors, all the same size. They all fit slightly different with the Glen Grey being the largest of the bunch. After steaming & wetting to shape, plus rain duty for a couple of them, they all formed to my head. I had sizing strips in due to LO shape of my head but all of those have since been pulled. My head is a dead on 24". I can't wait to see how Art Fawcett does with his conformer.
Vintage hats can also be tighter than their original marked sizes due to years of use & shrinkage of the leather sweatband. They will stretch back out fairly easy, tho.

 

[awest84532]

I appreciate all the words of wisdom from you guys, thanks. My worry isn't that I might be between sizes, it's more the frustration that the 7 3/8 is smaller than the 7 1/4 and that the first two 7 1/4's were so vastly different in size. I am delighted that the vendor was kind enough to allow an exchange, but it has me frustrated with Stetson. Maybe this just means I'm an Akubra kinda guy.

Blackthorne,

I have four FED IV's, all size 61's, one is too tight, two are just right, and one is too loose. I stretched the tight one and padded the lose one. They're all OK now.

The Stetsons I have seem to have some variation as well. It seems the only way I can be sure is to try 'it' on.

 

[babs]

As a newb, I too am thinking I may be in-between 7 1/4 and 7 3/8, hat depending.. two big key words. Online ordering does at least make the hat available, but if sizing had no error, we could just order pants online all the time too.. You could see how hit-and-miss that would be.

Makes me think there's no substitute to actually being able to try on the hat.. Kinda stinks hats aren't very prevalent these days so good luck finding a local shop in your area. I know of one spot in my area (Jackson Trading Post - Asheville) that's basically a western tack shop with tons of boots, leather goods, western hats, "outback" style hats, etc.. Haven't had the chance to see though if they have any quality dress hats at all. I'm guessing they could get them from their brands, Stetson, etc.

Oh how luxurious it would be to walk into a shop with hats everywhere, see some you like and just try them on. You guys in the big towns where there are shops like this.. I envy you.

Can ya tell I'm still mad that I got bid out of a nice old vintage stretcher? hehehe %@$%#$%^!

 

[FurFeltFedora]

Babs my advice to you is simple - go big or go home What I mean is that when in doubt, order on the large side. It may seem easier to stretch a hat out, but as a man who has many stretchers I can tell you it doesn't always work out as you planned. I'm not saying you can't stretch a hat out, what I'm saying is that in my experience a little bit large and some foam padding is my preferred way to go. Case in point - I just got a Campdraft yesterday and after bashing it I needed a little foam on the sides to get the fit right. After wearing all day in the sun, I had to take the foam out. So I got a better fit after just one day of wearing and if I had have ordered on the small size it would be too tight. Just my opinion.

 

[babs]

Well yeah. I totally agree. As I mentioned in my "bald guy" sizing thread I discovered some hats are in the listings sized in medium, large, XL based on size charts. The wool homburg was a "large" Bailey which fits on the large side of 7 1/4, which I suspect is basically 'in between' a 7 1/4 and 7 3/8, the two sizes within their "large" range. Fits great though maybe a wee bit large and could use some felt in the sides or just shrink up a little.

A specifically sized 7 1/4 I'm thinking is going to be routinely too small probably I suspect. Like the Miller I just picked up. I'll have to stretch it slightly but luckily not a bunch. So I'll like to try on some 7 3/8's and see just how routinely they'd be just way too big for my noggin. Some 7 3/8 hats I think may work fine.. Some maybe not. I'm still too inexperienced to know as I'm pretty new to this game of actually even "knowing" my own hat size. hehe

Just like shoes or other clothes I guess.. You can work with a pair that leans to the large side, but if they're too small, they're pretty much useless.

Amazing what a 1/4" in circumference will do in terms of hat size.

 

[FurFeltFedora]

One thing I never thought of, do you know what we're talking about when we tell people to put a little foam in the band of their hat?

Akubra's come with a strip of 1/4 x 3/8 white open cell foam with an adhesive back. It's the same stuff you can get at hardware stores for sealing drafts. A little bit of that (I often use a 3" strip) in the hat band really helps a large size feel just right (the foam compresses to fit). And a lot of the time I don't even use the sticky side, just leave the backing on and the fold of the band holds it in place. Makes it easy to take it out if the hat shrinks a bit from wear.

 

[gtdean48]

For adjusting too large a hat down...

You can also go to Wal-Mart or any craft store & get squares of craft felt for about 35 cents. You can cut as long or short of strips as you need. You can also double over in needed. I get the white so my sweat won't mess with any possible dyes of the colored squares. HTH

 

[babs]

Good stuff.. Thanks guys. Yeah I know just the place for it. Looks like for the serious officianado also MWS also has rolls of the stuff for like $10 on the same page with their stretchers. On a side note, those are the only current-item stretchers I've seen with the same full-circle shape of the vintage jobs.

http://wardrobesupplies.com/store/m2_mjsupp.html

 

[Blackthorn]

This is the problem you will find with trying to buy off the rack. The hat size charts from different brands never match and are off by a little. I'm shocked that this doesn't happen more often.


Here's just 2 charts

cm inches UK Universal USA
53 21 6 1/2 x-small 6 5/8
54 21 1/4 6 5/8 small 6 3/4
55 21 3/4 6 3/4 small 6 7/8
56 22 1/8 6 7/8 medium 7
57 22 1/2 7 medium 7 1/8
58 22 7/8 7 1/8 med large 7 1/4
59 23 1/4 7 1/4 large 7 3/8
60 23 3/4 7 3/8 large 7 1/2
61 24 1/4 7 1/2 x-large 7 5/8
62 24 1/2 7 5/8 x-large 7 3/4
63 24 7/8 7 3/4 xx-large 7 7/8



HEAD MEASUREMENT (INCHES) AMERICAN HAT SIZE EUROPEAN HAT SIZE (CM)
21 1/8 6 3/4 S 54
21 1/2 6 7/8 55
21 7/8 7 M 56
22 1/4 7 1/8 57
22 5/8 7 1/4 L 58
23 7 3/8 59
23 1/2 7 1/2 XL 60
23 7/8 7 5/8 61
24 1/4 7 3/4 XXL 62
24 5/8 7 7/8 XXL 63



How can they be this off? Someone did their math wrong.

The best advise I can give someone from buying a hat off the rack is to take your measurements ( or better yet let someone do it for you ). It's hard to measure one's own noggin. Then ask the company you are buying from what they would suggest. They should know how their hats fit. If you do the math to convert you will get a true hat size and I have yet to find a place that uses a true hat size,


John

Wow, that's a lot of good info, John, thanks for all that. Now I have a reference point.

 

[Blackthorn]

Babs my advice to you is simple - go big or go home What I mean is that when in doubt, order on the large side.

That's good advice, FFF. I was thinking the same thing. You can always make the hat rim a little tighter, but it's much harder the same way.

I'm still frustrated that there should be such a big difference in size between two Stetsons of the same make and model. The Cordova one is absolute perfection. Maybe that's an argument for only owning one hat....NAH!! I know, you guys all thought I had lost my marbles!

 

[FurFeltFedora]

Owning one hat is fine. I only have one Fed IV. It changes colours everyday, 5 colours in fact and sometimes there's a different bash. But technically it's only one hat, not 6. At least, that's the argument I keep giving my girlfriend

And no, it's not working

 

[Blackthorn]

Owning one hat is fine. I only have one Fed IV. It changes colours everyday, 5 colours in fact and sometimes there's a different bash. But technically it's only one hat, not 6. At least, that's the argument I keep giving my girlfriend

And no, it's not working

lol :eusa_clap :eusa_clap